duece Posted 9 January , 2009 Share Posted 9 January , 2009 Hi all, my name is Dre, I am from Holland and I am new to this forum. I became a member because I am trying to find out more information on two ancestors of mine and this forum came up in my Internet search, so I thought maybe they could help me out with my search/trace. I originate from the U.K. but live abroad in Holland and I was wondering if anybody on this forum could help me out on finding more information in the records about my two ancestors. I will be traveling to the U.K. on the end of this year to visit the Pro/Kew, relatives of mine are also willing to help me with my search, but I want to be sure which are the best places they could visit to retrieve any information. The thing is; I recently found out that my English side of the family has a tiny bit of a Naval history...I think.... My ancestor is: Name:PHILLIPS, ALBERT MARKHAM HOODInitials:A M HNationality:United KingdomRank:CommanderRegiment/Service:Royal NavyUnit Text:H.M.S. "Bulwark."Age:37Date of Death:26/11/1914Additional information:Son of Capt. John Phillips, R. N. and Mrs. Phillips; husband of Feodora Phillips, of 3, Grosvenor Rd., Weymouth.Casualty Type:Commonwealth War DeadGrave/Memorial Reference:1.Memorial:PORTSMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL As you can see me ancestor was killed on H.M.S. Bulwark in 1914. I want to try and find his service record, but when I go to the Royal Navy Casualty site I only get this; "PHILLIPS, Albert M H, Commander, Bulwark, 26 November 1914, ship lost" and nothing else... And I am not sure if his body was recovered after the tragic accident, a website does mention the following: The Victims The known location of some crew members of HMS Bulwark are listed below. Many victims were never recovered or are buried in as yet unidentified locations, therefore the list is not comprehensive. The list does mention AHM Phillips RN Commander, but it states that he is buried elsewhere... Reading the above line "Many victims were never recovered or are buried in as yet unidentified locations" I have to conclude after finding no evidence of a grave, only the mention of his name on the Plymouth Naval Memorial plaque, that his body was never found... A relative of mine also thinks that he is mentioned on the Leicester Cathedral St. Georges Chapel memorial, as the Phillips originate from Leicester, but I can not find any other information or photographs of the Cathedral memorial on the Internet... The only thing precious I have is a newspaper clipping from my Nana's documents, but that holds no further information about his service time on H.M.S. Bulwark, but does show a picture of him and that he indeed was a Commander on board the Bulwark. One website shows some pictures of men and Officers whom served on the Bulwark, but I can't find any from 1914 or before...I was hoping to find a picture of the Captain and all the Officers on board H.M.S. Bulwark of 1914... The 2nd ancestor I am looking for is AHM Phillips his father; Capt. John Phillips also from Leicester... I wish to know on which ships he served and which ship(s) he commanded.... But I can't find anything on a Capt. John Phillips... Is there anybody on this forum that can help me out or give me some directions to continue my search. Thank you for your time, and any info is very welcome. Cheers, Dre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 9 January , 2009 Share Posted 9 January , 2009 Try this link http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=1 Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 9 January , 2009 Share Posted 9 January , 2009 Dre I would suugest that you drop the moderators a line to have your thread moved to the Ships & Navy section. I am sure that the Navy buffs would love this one. Regards Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 9 January , 2009 Share Posted 9 January , 2009 I'll bump it over to the Ships & Navy section as suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duece Posted 9 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2009 Gents, thank you all for your reply's, and Steve thx's very much for your search effort! I tried it myself on that site and came up with nothing...must have goofed up..... I tried to buy the document online but unfortunatly had problems with the payment so I will have to look for a different way. Again thank you very much Steve! Melpack I thank you for your suggestion, I was wondering if I had done the right thing to post it in this section or better in the Naval section, eviltaxman sorted me out, cheers! Dre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 9 January , 2009 Share Posted 9 January , 2009 Welcome to the forum Dre, If an identifiable body was found, the CWGC should have been notified of where he was buried. As they only show the Portsmouth Naval Memorial he has no known grave. Pictures of groups of officers and men on the net rely on what people have posted, not necessarily what was taken. Also the crew in 1914 would probably have been fully taken up with working up from reserve, rather than having time for pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 9 January , 2009 Share Posted 9 January , 2009 Using the UK National Archives online catalogue I’ve made 10 matches for John Phillips. You should be able to cross reference to find the right one. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...mp;mediaarray=* One of them is: Name Phillips, John Elphinstone Hood, Date of Birth: 10 July 1870, Rank: Retired Surgeon Captain, Date 15 May 1895 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...;resultcount=10 Could this be another relation? The Hood could be a family affectation. Have you checked the census returns for the family? I found 5 matches for 4 men called Phillips who had Hood in their Christian names: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...mp;mediaarray=* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duece Posted 9 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2009 Welcome to the forum Dre, If an identifiable body was found, the CWGC should have been notified of where he was buried. As they only show the Portsmouth Naval Memorial he has no known grave. Pictures of groups of officers and men on the net rely on what people have posted, not necessarily what was taken. Also the crew in 1914 would probably have been fully taken up with working up from reserve, rather than having time for pictures. Hello, thank you for the welcome! I was afraid that he would not have a grave as nearly all of the 800 or so men perished with the ship. I was hopeful after seeing pictures of H.M.S. Bulwarks Captain and his Officers and some of the O/R on pictures dated 1908, that there were bound to be more pictures taken and that he might be on one of them... I am aware that we are depending on people to place these pictures as they come from their family albums and not from any other known source than the Navy pictures taken back then. To be honest I thought that every Captain and his complement of Officers were put on photo, but indeed in War time things would have been different. Cheers, Dre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 9 January , 2009 Share Posted 9 January , 2009 To be honest I thought that every Captain and his complement of Officers were put on photo, but indeed in War time things would have been different. It would depend very much on the Captain! Quite apart from the opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duece Posted 9 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2009 Using the UK National Archives online catalogue I've made 10 matches for John Phillips. You should be able to cross reference to find the right one. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...mp;mediaarray=* One of them is: Name Phillips, John Elphinstone Hood, Date of Birth: 10 July 1870, Rank: Retired Surgeon Captain, Date 15 May 1895 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...;resultcount=10 Could this be another relation? The Hood could be a family affectation. Have you checked the census returns for the family? I found 5 matches for 4 men called Phillips who had Hood in their Christian names: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...mp;mediaarray=* To be honest at the moment I know nothing else about the Commander his father than the info given by the CWGC: Son of Capt. John Phillips, R. N. and Mrs. Phillips; husband of Feodora Phillips, of 3, Grosvenor Rd., Weymouth.... Thank's to Steve I now know that AHM Phillips was born on 20 March 1876, and as the Phillips originate from the Leicester area I believe his father John must have lived there around that time... I do not know if Hood was a family affectation, the best thing for me to do now is ask if any of my family will visit the Pro and find out more info on Capt and Mrs Phillips.. Cheers for helping me with my search, much appreciated! Dre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duece Posted 9 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2009 Try this link http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=1 Steve Thank you very much for this link, it was indeed his service record which I was looking for, my family just downloaded the info, cheers! Dre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duece Posted 9 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2009 Gents, I found another website Url where there is mention of his name when he commanded H.M.S. Wear Picture in 1906 in the 2nd Destroyer Flotilla. In his service record there is a list of ships on which he served and on that list is written the name Wear, his date of appointment is 28-05-06. Sadly the handwriting is old fashioned and I can't decypher all of the words... He commanded H.M.S. Wear untill 19.10.09 when he transferred to H.M.S. Blenheim Picture. 2nd DESTROYER FLOTILLA EARNEST - Lt. Percy W. Pontifex EXE - Lt. Valentine E. B. Phillimore, DSO LIVELY - Lt. John R. Dodington NESS - Lt. Stanley W. Ellis NITH - Commander Wilmot S. Nicholson ORWELL - Lt. Reginald C. L. Owen SEAL - Lt. Basil G. Washington SPRIGHTLY - Lt. Frederick H. Hallowes SWALE - Lt. Richard F. White THRASHER - Lt. Cecil H. Pilcher URE - Commander James R. P. Hawksley WEAR - Lt. Albert M. H. Phillips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 10 January , 2009 Share Posted 10 January , 2009 Dre, you don't have to go to the PRO (now rebranded as the UK National Archives) to get census details: they are available online from a variety of sites: the 1881 is available for free from the Mormons at familysearch.com Using free bmd here are his birth and marriage certificate references: Births Mar 1876 Phillips Albert Markham H Totnes 5b 193 Marriages Sep 1901 Phillips Albert Markham H Steyning 2b 585 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duece Posted 10 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 10 January , 2009 Dre, you don't have to go to the PRO (now rebranded as the UK National Archives) to get census details: they are available online from a variety of sites: the 1881 is available for free from the Mormons at familysearch.com Using free bmd here are his birth and marriage certificate references: Births Mar 1876 Phillips Albert Markham H Totnes 5b 193 Marriages Sep 1901 Phillips Albert Markham H Steyning 2b 585 Hiya, thank you for your info and help, Albert indeed married in 1901 to a Feodora ..... can't make out her lastname though... Still I want to visit my family it's been a long time since I was back in good old England . Also I think I have found his father John Phillips, on Albert his service record it stated that John Phillips was Staff Captain, so I am 90% sure that this is him: DescriptionName Phillips, JohnRank: Staff CaptainDate13 June 1861Catalogue referenceADM 196/79 per ardua per mare per terram you had him in your list of ten Phillips I hope that a relative of mine will download the pdf file tonight.... Cheers, Dre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 10 January , 2009 Share Posted 10 January , 2009 dre, if you want to see a sad relic of the loss of BULWARK, make an appointment with the Imperial War Museum's Department of Documents (Lambeth Road, London SE1). Amongst their collections is the ship's Signal log book. It must have been lying open on the bridge or somewhere thereabouts when the explosion occurred, so the cover and centre pages were burnt off, and then it landed in the water. It was found by a naval diver who examined the wreckage ?a few days/weeks later, and retrieved. The IWM have had the surviving pages conserved and strengthened, and the whole rebound. In the same box is a copy of a photo of the huge cloud of smoke moments after the explosion, taken from a nearby ship. I'm afraid the violence of the detonation threw bodies and body parts over a wide area, so it's not surprising that very many men were never found and identified. However there were a handful of survivors, one of whom I seem to remember was below in his quarters when one of his mates said "What's that light?", and the next thing he was struggling in the water...it was reckoned the blast had bodily carried him down a corridor and up a ventilation shaft to the outside! The incident is discussed in a book by A.Cecil Hampshire, They Called it Accident (William Kimber & Co., London, 1961), which tries to link the event to the similar losses of HMS Natal in 1915 and HMS Vanguard 1917. LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 10 January , 2009 Share Posted 10 January , 2009 Marriages Sep 1901 ANDREWS Feodora Couchman Steyning 2b 585 Births Dec 1878 ANDREWES Feodora Couchman Brentford 3a 77 Deaths Jun 1926 Phillips Feodora C 48 Weymouth 5a 308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 10 January , 2009 Share Posted 10 January , 2009 Also I think I have found his father John Phillips, on Albert his service record it stated that John Phillips was Staff Captain, so I am 90% sure that this is him: DescriptionName Phillips, JohnRank: Staff CaptainDate13 June 1861Catalogue referenceADM 196/79 per ardua per mare per terram you had him in your list of ten Phillips I hope that a relative of mine will download the pdf file tonight.... Yes, I recognise him! As well as visiting your family, there is a lot of research you can do in the UK too; only a tiny fraction of the UKNA documents are online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duece Posted 10 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 10 January , 2009 dre, if you want to see a sad relic of the loss of BULWARK, make an appointment with the Imperial War Museum's Department of Documents (Lambeth Road, London SE1). Amongst their collections is the ship's Signal log book. It must have been lying open on the bridge or somewhere thereabouts when the explosion occurred, so the cover and centre pages were burnt off, and then it landed in the water. It was found by a naval diver who examined the wreckage ?a few days/weeks later, and retrieved. The IWM have had the surviving pages conserved and strengthened, and the whole rebound. In the same box is a copy of a photo of the huge cloud of smoke moments after the explosion, taken from a nearby ship. I'm afraid the violence of the detonation threw bodies and body parts over a wide area, so it's not surprising that very many men were never found and identified. However there were a handful of survivors, one of whom I seem to remember was below in his quarters when one of his mates said "What's that light?", and the next thing he was struggling in the water...it was reckoned the blast had bodily carried him down a corridor and up a ventilation shaft to the outside! The incident is discussed in a book by A.Cecil Hampshire, They Called it Accident (William Kimber & Co., London, 1961), which tries to link the event to the similar losses of HMS Natal in 1915 and HMS Vanguard 1917. LST_164 LST_164 thank you very much for your tip and info, I did not know that part(s) of HMS Bulwarks Signal Log Book survived, that is good news, there "might" be mention of him in that log. I have seen the picture that you explained in your reply, big plume of black smoke surrounded by some vessels, very sad story indeed and I am sad for him that his life ended like that when he had still prospects of a great career ahead of him... I have got his service record but how I wished that they used a typewriter, the handwriting is mostly unreadable... Can't wait now to read Staff Captain John Phillips his service record, this will hopefuly give me more info on him. By the way arn't there any pictures about of the wreck of HMS Bulwark, I know that the blast pretty well desolved her.... Thx's again gents for helping me out! Dre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 10 January , 2009 Share Posted 10 January , 2009 Dre, You could perhaps try posting a sample page from his 'unreadable' service record. There are numbers of forum members with experience of deciphering difficult manuscripts (and not only in English) and many who are familiar with the kind of entries that occur in such records, and between us we should be able to figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duece Posted 10 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 10 January , 2009 Dre, You could perhaps try posting a sample page from his 'unreadable' service record. There are numbers of forum members with experience of deciphering difficult manuscripts (and not only in English) and many who are familiar with the kind of entries that occur in such records, and between us we should be able to figure it out. I will keep that in mind and pm you later cheers! Dre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 13 January , 2009 Share Posted 13 January , 2009 1881 Census Livingstone Rd St Johns Cottage Dartmouth, Devon Martha H. Phillips 37 (wife of Commander RN) Richard G.W. Phillips 8 [?Richard Grant Hood Phillips Paymater Captain RN] Albert M.H. Phillips 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 13 January , 2009 Share Posted 13 January , 2009 1891 Census John Phillips 54 Staff Captain RN born in Stroud, Kent Martha Phillips 49 Anne E Phillips 25 Albert M H Phillips 15 Naval Cadet, RN Owen T H Phillips 7 [presumably Phillips, Owen Tudor Hood; Date of Birth: 04 October 1883] Valetta House, St ?Woula Grove, Portsea, Hampshire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 13 January , 2009 Share Posted 13 January , 2009 1901 Census Lieutenant Albert MH Phillips 25 aboard HMS Trafalgar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duece Posted 13 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2009 Hello, cheers for all the info, I apriciate it very much! I have also got Staff Captain John Phillips his service record but there's a few probs, there are a few entries for the name Phillips on the one sheet, but most can be excluded but 2, Both named John Phillips and ranked Staff Commander, I can make out a death date of death for the one John 1915. Most of the words are hard to make out and I want to be sure which is my ancestor. I was hoping it would give his birthdate, and place of birth, but you have found that out, now I want to find out which year they were born and died, I can reckon it out but rather have the document? Family of mine found this out:Name:Relationship to head:Marital Status:Years married:Sex:Age in 1911:Occupation:Where born:PHILLIPS, MARKHAMHEADMARRIEDM35COMMANDER - ROYAL NAVYDARTMOUTH - DEVONPHILLIPS, FEODORAWIFEMARRIED9 Y - 7 MF32BRENTFORD - MIDDLESEXPHILLIPS, JOHNSONM8HOVE - SUSSEXPHILLIPS, JOANDAUGHTERF5HOVE - SUSSEXPHILLIPS, RICHARDSONM2SOUTHSEA - HANTSPHILLIPS, MARYDAUGHTERF11 MONTHSSOUTHSEA - HANTSNICHOLSON, MABELSERVANTSINGLEF24COOK - GENERAL DOMESTICPEACE POTTAGE - SUSSEXLEWIS, ROSINASERVANTSINGLEF22NURSE DOMESTICWYE - KENTMILES, ALICESERVANTSINGLEF22HOUSEMAID DOMESTICBYWORTH - SUSSEXPHILLIPS FEODORA (RG14PN4455 RG78PN182 RD62 SD1 ED5 SN377)AddressHOLBORN VILLA 177 HIGH ST SHEERNESSCountyKentDistrictSheppeySubdistrictMinsterEnumeration District5ParishSheerness I googled the address and found that the house is still standing http://www.cubittandwest.co.uk/auctions/au...ails/?LotID=131 Cheers, Dre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duece Posted 13 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2009 1891 Census John Phillips 54 Staff Captain RN born in Stroud, Kent Martha Phillips 49 Anne E Phillips 25 Albert M H Phillips 15 Naval Cadet, RN Owen T H Phillips 7 [presumably Phillips, Owen Tudor Hood; Date of Birth: 04 October 1883] Valetta House, St ?Woula Grove, Portsea, Hampshire A question where do you find these Census and what is/was there use? Thank you! Dre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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