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Help Requested Concerning 11 Great War Airmen


josquin
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Gentlemen:

I have been researching the Great War airmen of the R.F.C., R.N.A.S., and R.A.F. for many

years. Since I am not a U.K. resident, I do not have access to the nondigitalized NA service

records and other critical sources for documentation. I request forenames and birthdates/places

for 11 airmen. Given the formidable expertise many of you demonstrate often, I hope you will help.

Child, Lt. J.E. 45 Sqn. Belmont, Surrey (Norman Franks lists as "James E.")

Daley, Lt. John Albert Edward Robertson, 13 & 24 Sqn. Kingston, Jamaica, B.W.I.(d.1918)

Daniel, Capt. Hector C., 43 Sqn. Senekal, O.F.S., South Africa (d.Pretoria, c.1950)

Harrop, Sjt. W., M.M., 104 Sqn. #49486

Jackson, Gunlayer H.S. 5 N Sqn.

Kilroy, Sjt. M.V., 18 Sqn. (MIC says "M.V."; Franks says "M.B.")

Lindfield, 2/AM. H., 48 Sqn.

Martin, Lt. W.T. 22 Sqn. Kandy, Ceylon

Mather, Cpl. M., D.C.M. 20 Sqn. #20624

Parry, Lt. Samuel, 62 Sqn. Cwmaman, Wales (d. 3 May 1918

Reed, Cpl. V., 48 Sqn.

Thanking you for any help you may provide...

Regards,

Trelawney

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RFC officers’ service records are a standard army search.

RAF officers’ service records are held in alphabetical order on microfilm at the National Archives, Kew. So they may be inline for appearing online soon.

RFC other ranks’ service records are a standard army search.

RAF other ranks’ service records are held in service number order and are original documents held at the National Archives, Kew.

You can order copies using their shop online service. For the AIR 79 (RAF other ranks) records the charge is higher than their documents online service, because the originals are larger than A3. Below are the references where I’ve been able to identify them.

Child, Lt. J.E. AIR 76/85

Daley, Lt. John Albert Edward Robertson, AIR 76/120

Daniel, Capt. Hector C., AIR 76/121

Harrop, Sjt. W., M.M., 104 Sqn. #49486 His RFC/RAF number was 99283. AIR 79/897

Jackson, Gunlayer H.S. Do you know his service number?

Kilroy, Sjt. M.V., His RFC/RAF number was 3510. AIR 79/45

Lindfield, 2/AM. H., His RFC/RAF number was 94424. AIR 79/856

Martin, Lt. W.T. AIR 76/337

Mather, Cpl. M., D.C.M. #20624 AIR 79/220

Parry, Lt. Samuel, AIR 76/390

Reed, Cpl. V., Do you know his service number?

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The MIC for Harrop's MM is not on Ancestry, but is on the UKNA site:

Description Medal card of Harrop, W

Corps Regiment No Rank

Field Company Royal Engineers 49486 Pioneer

Date 1914-1920

Catalogue reference WO 372/23

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=2

Per Ardua,

Your very informative reply to my inquiry is appreciated greatly. Unfortunately, I do not have

service numbers for Jackson and Reed. Yes, Harrop's MIC is on the UKNA site, but like most

NCOs it only lists his initial rather than his forename; in fact, Harrop has more than one MIC.

Again, thank you.

Trelawney

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Yes, Harrop's MIC is on the UKNA site, but like most NCOs it only lists his initial rather than his forename; in fact, Harrop has more than one MIC.

Sorry if I was unclear, the MIC I referred to was that for his MM; I should have said explicitly that his MIC for his 1914/15 Star is on both Ancestry and the UKNA. I think you'll find that it is not always the case that NCOs only have their initials listed; it is often the case for people with more than one forename and also for the awards of the MM & DCM.

Btw are you no longer intested in Purvis?

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Unfortunately, I do not have service numbers for Jackson and Reed.

You'll also need to find Jackson's service number to get his service register for his time in the RN/ RNAS. Fortunately the Naval Medal Rolls are in alphabetical order and there will probably be an entry for him on ADM 171/106 (surnames: Hor-Jol); maybe a pal can do a look up. It will probably have a note that his BWM & VM were issued by the Air Minestry; also if he was a gunlayer (that's usually a sub-rating not rank) then he'd already seen several years’ service and so could have received the 1914/15 Star from the Admiralty.

As for Reed, there is a partial alphabetical index to RFC/ RAF service numbers in AIR 78.

Glad I can help

Ad Astra

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You'll also need to find Jackson's service number to get his service register for his time in the RN/ RNAS. Fortunately the Naval Medal Rolls are in alphabetical order and there will probably be an entry for him on ADM 171/106 (surnames: Hor-Jol); maybe a pal can do a look up. It will probably have a note that his BWM & VM were issued by the Air Minestry; also if he was a gunlayer (that's usually a sub-rating not rank) then he'd already seen several years' service and so could have received the 1914/15 Star from the Admiralty.

As for Reed, there is a partial alphabetical index to RFC/ RAF service numbers in AIR 78.

Glad I can help

Ad Astra

Per Ardua,

I am exceedingly grateful for the very thorough reply concerning these 11 airmen. I will go ahead and

order the service records that are available from UKNA and do the best I can with the problem raised by

identifying Jackson. I took Purvis off the list because I determined who he was thanks to John Graeme,

of The Aerodrome (an organization not generally admired at GWF): 2/Lt. Robert Cyril Purvis, of the

West Riding Regiment and R.F.C./R.A.F. 45 & 20 Sqn., born at Armin, Yorkshire, in 1893. Norman Franks

misled many of us by listing "W.C. Purvis" in ABOVE THE WAR FRONTS. I appreciate the clarification

about Harrop's M.M. MIC as distinguished from his MIC for the Campaign Medals. Again, thank you!

Trelawney

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Per Ardua,

I am exceedingly grateful for the very thorough reply concerning these 11 airmen. I will go ahead and

order the service records that are available from UKNA and do the best I can with the problem raised by

identifying Jackson. I took Purvis off the list because I determined who he was thanks to John Graeme,

of The Aerodrome (an organization not generally admired at GWF): 2/Lt. Robert Cyril Purvis, of the

West Riding Regiment and R.F.C./R.A.F. 45 & 20 Sqn., born at Armin, Yorkshire, in 1893. Norman Franks

misled many of us by listing "W.C. Purvis" in ABOVE THE WAR FRONTS. I appreciate the clarification

about Harrop's M.M. MIC as distinguished from his MIC for the Campaign Medals. Again, thank you!

Trelawney

PerArdua,

An additional query: I found 2 MICs for W. Harrop:

49486, 99238 W. Harrop, R.E. & R.F.C.

99753 W. Harrop, R.E. (Pioneer & Corporal, to France 10 November 1915)

Are these two listings for the same man or listings for two men with identical surnames and initials?

Do NCOs, reaching Serjeant rank, have a new service number that differs from the number assigned

when they were holding the rank of Private or Corporal? Thanking you for your help, again.

Trelawney

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Hi Trelawney,

You may already know this, but Lt J A E R Daly DFC - the adopted son of George Edward Daly of Kingston, Jamaica - was originally an observer before training as a pilot, being killed at the age of 20 whilst flying SE5a Number B8261.

Regards

Steve

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Hi Trelawney,

You may already know this, but Lt J A E R Daly DFC - the adopted son of George Edward Daly of Kingston, Jamaica - was originally an observer before training as a pilot, being killed at the age of 20 whilst flying SE5a Number B8261.

Regards

Steve

Steve,

Many thanks for the information about Daly/Daley. I did know this, from CWGC and Norman Franks'

ABOVE THE TRENCHES, but I appreciate your bringing it to my attention. His surname is something

of a problem: CWGC says "Daly"; his award citation, W.C. Lambert in COMBAT REPORT (his memoir

about 24 Squadron), and a list from the RAF Historical Branch years ago all say "Daley." Lambert

knew Dal(e)y quite well; they often flew patrols together and saved each other a number of times,

so he should know how the surname was spelled. So, probably, a service record copy will be

necessary to settle the matter.

Trelawney

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  • 3 weeks later...

Re Mather:

MATHER Malcolm 20624; Sergeant , DCM. DOB not shown. Enlisted 04.12.1916

A carpenter from Stirlingshire, son of Robert Mather

2/AM 04.12.1916

1/AM 01.08.1917

(Trade class ‘observer’; also qualified Aerial Gunner.)

20 Squadron 10.10.1917

Corporal 07.02.1918

UK Temp duty 09.02.1918

Rejoined squadron 01.03.1918

RAF Corporal Mechanic 01.04.1918

Acting Sergeant Mechanic 17.05.1918

Home Establishment 03.06.1918

Reclassified Corporal 01.01.1919

Flight Cadet Observer 08.02.1919

Discharged 09.04.1919

DECORATIONS: Awarded DCM 18.05.1918

P5304 Supplement to the London Gazette 01.05.1918:

“For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty while acting as an observer. He was attacked by twelve enemy machines while flying over the enemy’s lines and in a fight which lasted fifteen minutes he shot down two of the enemy out of control and drove off the others. He undoubtedly saved his machine by his dogged determination.

He has shown great skill and courage in many other aerial combats.”

Hope that helps

Bob

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Re Mather:

Bob

Thank you for the very complete service record information for Malcolm Mather.

I checked the birth registry for Scotland (www.scotlandspeople,uk.gov) and

it listed "Mather, Malcolm Brown," born at Falkirk, Stirlingshire, birth registered

1st quarter of 1898 (the actual birthdate was earlier). Many thanks for all the

helpful information--including the DCM citation.

Trelawney

MATHER Malcolm 20624; Sergeant , DCM. DOB not shown. Enlisted 04.12.1916

A carpenter from Stirlingshire, son of Robert Mather

2/AM 04.12.1916

1/AM 01.08.1917

(Trade class 'observer'; also qualified Aerial Gunner.)

20 Squadron 10.10.1917

Corporal 07.02.1918

UK Temp duty 09.02.1918

Rejoined squadron 01.03.1918

RAF Corporal Mechanic 01.04.1918

Acting Sergeant Mechanic 17.05.1918

Home Establishment 03.06.1918

Reclassified Corporal 01.01.1919

Flight Cadet Observer 08.02.1919

Discharged 09.04.1919

DECORATIONS: Awarded DCM 18.05.1918

P5304 Supplement to the London Gazette 01.05.1918:

"For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty while acting as an observer. He was attacked by twelve enemy machines while flying over the enemy's lines and in a fight which lasted fifteen minutes he shot down two of the enemy out of control and drove off the others. He undoubtedly saved his machine by his dogged determination.

He has shown great skill and courage in many other aerial combats."

Hope that helps

Bob

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