16th bn Royal Scots Regiment

[Derbyshire]

Hi

Can anyone help piece together the events leading up to the decease of Samuel George Allen of the above regiment.He is recorded on the CWGC website as having been killed on 12 Sep 1917 (in France)and is buried at the Hargicourt British Cemetery (I B 33). Other than that I have no details.Any diaries or weblinks would be appreciated.

Many Thanks

Lesley

[Tom A McCluskey]

Lesley,

Jack Alexander spent some considerable time researching and writing about this Battalion (16th Bn Royal Scots), it resulted in his excellent book McRae's Battalion:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mccraes-Battalion-...9729&sr=1-1

Also, if you get your order in tonight, you can buy regimental histories for £12.95 from Naval & Military Press. The Royal Scots edition is in 2 volumes:

http://www.naval-military-press.com/royal-...9-pr-18213.html

A bargain in anyone's eyes.

Hope this helps

Aye

Tom McC

[Derbyshire]

Lesley,

Jack Alexander spent some considerable time researching and writing about this Battalion (16th Bn Royal Scots), it resulted in his excellent book McRae's Battalion:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mccraes-Battalion-...9729&sr=1-1

Also, if you get your order in tonight, you can buy regimental histories for £12.95 from Naval & Military Press. The Royal Scots edition is in 2 volumes:

http://www.naval-military-press.com/royal-...9-pr-18213.html

A bargain in anyone's eyes.

Hope this helps

Aye

Tom McC

[Derbyshire]

Hi Tom

Thanks for your quick response. I obviously will look into these books but still getting over Christmas!! Happy New Year - enjoy!.

Regards

Lesley

[Jack Alexander]

Hi

Can anyone help piece together the events leading up to the decease of Samuel George Allen of the above regiment.He is recorded on the CWGC website as having been killed on 12 Sep 1917 (in France)and is buried at the Hargicourt British Cemetery (I B 33). Other than that I have no details.Any diaries or weblinks would be appreciated.

Many Thanks

Lesley

I'm not long back from Hargicourt.

Sam was one of a large draft of men (who had originally served in other regiments) which joined 16RS in December 1916. He's listed as a former member of the HLI, but I suspect that he also served in the Notts and Derby Regiment (although at the moment that's no more than an educated guess.)

He probably took part in the fighting at Arras and Roeux in April '17. After the successful offensive actions in front of Hargicourt (at the end of August) the battalion remained in the area for several weeks, engaged in what might be described as 'routine trench occupation.' Snipers, machine-guns and artillery were active on both sides and there were many casualties.

Sam went into the line on 11 September, when the 16th relieved the 23rd NF. His company was occupying a part of the former German position known as Pond Trench, which had been badly damaged by British shellfire prior to its capture. Early on the morning of 12 September (a Wednesday) the enemy opened an intense bombardment on Pond and the adjacent trenches. Sam was one of three men killed. His friend, Dan Shirt (who took a similarly strange route to the Royal Scots from Derbyshire via the HLI) is buried in a neighbouring grave.

[Derbyshire]

I'm not long back from Hargicourt.

Sam was one of a large draft of men (who had originally served in other regiments) which joined 16RS in December 1916. He's listed as a former member of the HLI, but I suspect that he also served in the Notts and Derby Regiment (although at the moment that's no more than an educated guess.)

He probably took part in the fighting at Arras and Roeux in April '17. After the successful offensive actions in front of Hargicourt (at the end of August) the battalion remained in the area for several weeks, engaged in what might be described as 'routine trench occupation.' Snipers, machine-guns and artillery were active on both sides and there were many casualties.

Sam went into the line on 11 September, when the 16th relieved the 23rd NF. His company was occupying a part of the former German position known as Pond Trench, which had been badly damaged by British shellfire prior to its capture. Early on the morning of 12 September (a Wednesday) the enemy opened an intense bombardment on Pond and the adjacent trenches. Sam was one of three men killed. His friend, Dan Shirt (who took a similarly strange route to the Royal Scots from Derbyshire via the HLI) is buried in a neighbouring grave.

Hello Jack

Thank you so much for your reply.It appears that he was very unlucky.Does your book go into more detail because I am curious to know how you know about his friend? It looks as if I shall be treating myself to a post Christmas present! I have found out through my genealogy research that I (and I suppose many others) have several persons killed and I have actually started a project within a project. It looks as if I shall have to pursuade my husband to take me to visit yet another cemetery in France and Belgium!

Thanks again and a Happy New Year to you.

Regards

Lesley

[Jack Alexander]

Hello Jack

I am curious to know how you know about his friend?

They were members of the same (understrength) section, Lesley. I have their platoon officer's roll book.

[dycer]

Lesley,

In the folklore of the British Army,the Royal Scots hold a special place,merely because,as the 1st Infantry Regiment,they have been involved in many Wars, going back to the 1600's.

The 16th Royal Scots Battalion,within the Regiment,is a revered Battalion.It was formed in, November 1914,to counter German aggression but has its roots in the Edinburgh Football Club,Heart of Midlothian.

The cream of the original Battalion lost their lives in the Somme Battle in 1916 and whilst the 16th were made up to fighting strength with drafts,of men,from Edinburgh and many other parts of UK,it was never the same Battalion, as Jack's post has indicated.

George

[Derbyshire]

They were members of the same (understrength) section, Lesley. I have their platoon officer's roll book.

Hi Jack

Thanks for clearing that up.Thought you were psychic! Are you interested in anything I may discover locally?

Lesley

[Derbyshire]

Lesley,

In the folklore of the British Army,the Royal Scots hold a special place,merely because,as the 1st Infantry Regiment,they have been involved in many Wars, going back to the 1600's.

The 16th Royal Scots Battalion,within the Regiment,is a revered Battalion.It was formed in, November 1914,to counter German aggression but has its roots in the Edinburgh Football Club,Heart of Midlothian.

The cream of the original Battalion lost their lives in the Somme Battle in 1916 and whilst the 16th were made up to fighting strength with drafts,of men,from Edinburgh and many other parts of UK,it was never the same Battalion, as Jack's post has indicated.

George

Hi George

Thanks for your reply.As you probably can tell I am somewhat lacking in the background to all these things. Appreciate what you guys have helped with.

Best Wishes

Lesley