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Remembered Today:

A question for the organisers of the In from the Cold project


harribobs

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I've read this thread with incredulity that the OP thinks that a possible future offer of assistance in the procurement of necessary death certs, involving no transfer of funds (as far as I can see) to anyone involved with the IFTCP, could be anything other than that. I've seen that the Forum members who have been, to all intents, defamed, if not libelled, on this board have patiently, politely, comprehensively and repeatedly answered the OP's question. I agree with Keith's post above - enough; there really does seem to be no more to be said - other than an apology from the OP.

Jim

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This does indeed seem to be a sad and needless thread for our forum. Just for the record, as a forum member, a member of the public and a UK tax payer I would like to comment that I fully support the IFCP, and the work its voulnteers are doing. It seems to me to be a worthy cause. Furthermore I would have no concern if the volunteers were both remunerated for expenses AND paid as a reward OUT OF TAX PAYERS MONEY. Nonetheless I accept and believe that they do not obtain any financial reward but might, if lucky, receive reimbursement in respect of death certificate costs.

Without wishing to be rude I would however go as far as commenting that the OP appears to be having a personal crisis at the moment, when adding the exchanges on this thread to those on another that he has contributed to (Woman Sniper thread).

Ian

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I agree with the last few postings. Does this thread really need to continue? All that needs to be said has been said - apart for an apology, which I'm sure that Terry and John will graciously accept. Are Guests able to access this topic and view dirty washing being discussed in public?

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Guest KevinEndon

I say leave it open to that those who have heard the rumour can see how big a lie it is.

I am still awaiting to see a written apology from the starter saying he got his wires crossed

Kevin

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Having just got back from Banjul I'm now able to add my comments to this remarkable thread. I believe I am legitimately entitled to comment on it's content too -

Those of you who know me will know that I'm always one to speak my mind and that I'm not in the habit of treating anyone as a "god" as some odd people tend to do sometimes. I'm certainly no YES man as evidenced by all my past threads. I'm often to be found having a go at parties not used to being criticised. I NEVER "pitch" into a thread with the sole purpose of causing mischief as some others often do -

I can categorically confirm that from the very outset, I have been made aware that the DC cost dispensation(s) proposal was only ever on offer for "In From the Cold Project" cases or cases presented by the forum under the direction of Terry Denham/John Hartley. I have always been aware that these dispensations did NOT cover my own cases (which I work on independantly from the GWF) or any other case submited independantly from the GWF.

I'm not particularly happy that my costs are not covered but this is NOTHING whatsoever to do with Terry Denham or the Great War Forum. As far as I'm concerned I wish Terry every success if he manages to convince these faceless civil servants to cover his project DC costs. I would imagine he's tired of sucking up to civil servants to get this thing off the ground...

What an earth has been going on here? Why didn't someone just PM me to ask what I know? I would have been able to put the record straight quite easily in private without the need of a public post. I'm in no ones pocket either...

I am in awe of the "In From The Cold Project" and what is has achieved in the short time it has been operating. It is an affront to me personally that anyone should question the project in the way they have or the motives of the organisers or volunteers. As far as I'm aware they ALL devote their time completely free of charge and at no time has it ever been suggested that any volunteer would be able to recover costs, disbursements or fees other than direct DC costs.

These kind volunteers pore over page upon page of boring and mundane lists cross-referencing deaths with CWGC casualty records. I would imagine the work is often "soul destroying".

I would imagine some of the unkind insinuations/comments in this thread may directly put the whole project in jeapody and that would be a disaster for us all (not to forget the forgotten men themselves)!

Lets all let the thread poster simply retract his original statement and then allow him an honourable way out. In the past I have started threads which upon relection I wished I hadn't started. This is no different, we ALL make mistakes...

Thats all I have to say.

Neil

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Are Guests able to access this topic and view dirty washing being discussed in public?

Unfortunately, yes they can.

It is, perhaps, the most regretable aspect of this nasty little business that it comes at precisely the time the Project is starting recruit volunteers from outside of the Forum membership. It is exactly those potentially interested folk who might come and have a nosy at the GWF knowing this is where we started.

As suggested up-thread, one can only assume that whoever started the rumour and "set up" harribobs has some unpleasant agenda of their own.

As to apologies, whilst I'm not holding my breath waiting for one, the wording of the OP as it stands is a slur against the good names of all volunteers involved in Project and not just against Terry & me. Let us hope that those responsible have read the universal condemnation of the slur and feel suitably chastened.

John

Edited by John Hartley
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Having just got back from Banjul I'm now able to add my comments to this remarkable thread. I believe I am legitimately entitled to comment on it's content too -

Those of you who know me will know that I'm always one to speak my mind and that I'm not in the habit of treating anyone as a "god" as some odd people tend to do sometimes. I'm certainly no YES man as evidenced by all my past threads. I'm often to be found having a go at parties not used to being criticised. I NEVER "pitch" into a thread with the sole purpose of causing mischief as some others often do -

I can categorically confirm that from the very outset, I have been made aware that the DC cost dispensation(s) proposal was only ever on offer for "In From the Cold Project" cases or cases presented by the forum under the direction of Terry Denham/John Hartley. I have always been aware that these dispensations did NOT cover my own cases (which I work on independantly from the GWF) or any other case submited independantly from the GWF.

I'm not particularly happy that my costs are not covered but this is NOTHING whatsoever to do with Terry Denham or the Great War Forum. As far as I'm concerned I wish Terry every success if he manages to convince these faceless civil servants to cover his project DC costs. I would imagine he's tired of sucking up to civil servants to get this thing off the ground...

What an earth has been going on here? Why didn't someone just PM me to ask what I know? I would have been able to put the record straight quite easily in private without the need of a public post. I'm in no ones pocket either...

I am in awe of the "In From The Cold Project" and what is has achieved in the short time it has been operating. It is an affront to me personally that anyone should question the project in the way they have or the motives of the organisers or volunteers. As far as I'm aware they ALL devote their time completely free of charge and at no time has it ever been suggested that any volunteer would be able to recover costs, disbursements or fees other than direct DC costs.

These kind volunteers pour over page upon page of boring and mundane lists cross-referencing deaths with CWGC casualty records. I would imagine the work is often "soul destroying".

I would imagine some of the unkind insinuations/comments in this thread may directly put the whole project in jeapody and that would be a disaster for us all (not to forget the forgotten men themselves)!

Lets all let the thread poster retract his original statement and then allow him an honourable way out. In the past I have started threads which upon relection I wished I hadn't started. This is no different.

Thats all I have to say.

Neil

Neil

Well said - the starter of the thread should do the honourable thing.....

Tony

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Neil

Well said - the starter of the thread should do the honourable thing.....

Tony

What a glass of brandy in the library with a service revolver? - bit steep these days what what :D

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What a glass of brandy in the library with a service revolver? - bit steep these days what what :D

Isn't that what the Labour politicians do these days? :lol:

EDIT: What What...

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What a glass of brandy in the library with a service revolver? - bit steep these days what what :D

Thought it was whiskey usually: although can't bear the stuff meself ( stands back to receive abuse from the assembled multitudes)

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Shall we just take this thread over with childish banter and pointless drivel?

and then perhaps its original content will be long forgotten? :D

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I'm not too keen on the Irish stuff myself, but if anyone starts abusing fine malt whisky I will report them to the moderators.

Keith

An apology however about the original post would still be the right thing. There is no call for more extreme action.

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I'm amazed by this topic.

I hope that it is as Allie stated a mix up between 'reimbursement' and 'payment', although a detailed explanation to the below is needed:

"There has been a rumour going around that members of the In from the Cold Project are / will receive payment for researching non-commemorations."

The IFTC project had been attacked and only an explanation of the above comment will repair the damage done.

I've a few uncommemorated men in the pipe line, I've ordered a few DC's at my expense, i actually believe it's the best £42 i've spent in a long time!!! For the IFTC team to recieve 'reimbursement' is a good thing, i'd suspect it'd result in more accepted men.

One forum member once offerd to buy a few certificates for me, an amazing gesture from a truely commited man. Besides even if TD and JH were to get paid i'm in no doubt they'd pump the money straight back in to the project.

Neil

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Guest KevinEndon
Besides even if TC and JH were to get paid i'm in no doubt they'd pump the money straight back in to the project.

Neil

If Top Cat is being paid and TD is not then I can see TD phoning Officer Dibble to get onto the case straight away, but knowing Choochoo, Brains and Benny the Ball would have a cunning plan to get T.C off with the cash

post-11197-1229459126.jpg

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I stand by my comments above re the IFCP however, I have re-read this whole thread again and again - I don't think that Harribob ever really intended to cause offence here as others suggest. From what I see all he has done is ask for a detailed explanation on any future grant funding. That detail hasn't been forthcoming only insults and over-reactions.

No ones honour has been called into question or damaged here.

It aint worth beating anyone up for. This thread needs CLOSING! :P

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I don't think that Harribob ever really intended to cause offence here as others suggest. From what I see all he has done is ask for a detailed explanation

To be honest ... I thought that too !! ^_^

Annie

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If Top Cat is being paid and TD is not then I can see TD phoning Officer Dibble to get onto the case straight away, but knowing Choochoo, Brains and Benny the Ball would have a cunning plan to get T.C off with the cash

post-11197-1229459126.jpg

Damn you Kevin, i'd hoped i corrected that in time -_-

Hope you're well.

Neil

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I don't think that Harribob ever really intended to cause offence here as others suggest. From what I see all he has done is ask for a detailed explanation

To be honest ... I thought that too !! ^_^

I think you probably didn't see the original post before it was edited.

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Whatever the original thought behind starting this thread, and I like to think it was not intended maliciously, life is too short to worry about it.

I cannot see much point in continuing the thread - is anything constructive going to be added?

Neil

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I hope that it is as Allie stated a mix up between 'reimbursement' and 'payment', although a detailed explanation to the below is needed:

"There has been a rumour going around that members of the In from the Cold Project are / will receive payment for researching non-commemorations."

The IFTC project had been attacked and only an explanation of the above comment will repair the damage done.

Neil

I'm unsure what more practical information I can add to my post #17, which is about as full an answer as I can muster.

Everyone knows what they understand "will receive payment for researching non-commemorations" to mean. To repeat my earlier comment, any such rumour is unfounded and untrue.

If the MoD reaches a favourable decision about it buying the death certificates, the Project will be able to move forward. If it doesnt, it won't. As I said our hope is that the MoD and GRO will reach an agreement that funds can simply be transferred one to the other without monies having to go via a third party (the Project). Otherwise, we are going to see an administrative roundabout that sees money moving Treasury to MoD to Project to GRO to Treasury. But that's a matter for government not the project.

For information, our current state of play is broadly as follows:-

"Airmen died in the Great War" - completely checked and all missings now accepted for commemoration.

"Soldiers Died in the Great War" - all home deaths checked. 67 cases await death certificates or further investigation.

"Officers Died in the Great War" - Final checks undertaken up to letter B. 3 cases await death certificates.

"GRO Overseas Deaths List" - Project has reached letter G. 608 death certificates awaited.

So, assuming everything goes well - we get funding, volunteers keep checking, etc - the end of the project in a couple of years might see us bring "in" perhaps a couple of thousand men. Barring the odd human error, it'll mean every in-service death will be properly commemorated.

John

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...From what I see all he has done is ask for a detailed explanation on any future grant funding. That detail hasn't been forthcoming only insults and over-reactions. ...

No ones honour has been called into question or damaged here.

Really, Neil? As I said above: ' I've seen that the Forum members who have been, to all intents, defamed, if not libelled, on this board have patiently, politely, comprehensively and repeatedly answered the OP's question.' No insults. No over-reactions. The detail you refer to has not been forthcoming, I'd suggest, because the detail does not yet exist.

Jim

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Jim,

I appreciate that this arrangement hasn't even been confirmed yet by the government authorities yet. I have always supported the project and it's dedicated volunteers and will continue to do so in the future. Further, I congratulate T.D on his persistance with this DC dispensation thingy and wish him well.

Those figures above quoted by John Hartley are amazing. No less than 2,000 coming in from the cold as a direct consequence of this project and the efforts of it's volunteers! :o

I still tend to think that Haribob probably posted his original post in haste and that in hindsight he should have said things differently. We have all been there, I know I have made similar mistakes in the past which has resulted in someone being offended.

At the end of the day WE are all on the same side here (including Haribob) and really shouldn't be arguing amongst ourselves like this.

Lets all get on with the most important thing - FIND MORE NON-COMS! ;)

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Thank you for your interpretation of what The OP really meant and for explaining where we all stand on this issue and not least for reminding us of our duty. I read the original post with original heading. I posted my reaction to that and the alterations and have seen nothing to persuade me to change my mind.

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I still tend to think that Haribob probably posted his original post in haste and that in hindsight he should have said things differently. We have all been there, I know I have made similar mistakes in the past which has resulted in someone being offended.

More than liklely, but where is Haribob to further comment? Either he has a strong rebuttle or an apology for being responsible for a post that, at least, created conditions that lead to a (very) wrong impression.

The other conclusion could be that, having sown the seeds of discontent, he has done the proverbial runner from this thread....

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The other conclusion could be that, having sown the seeds of discontent, he has done the proverbial runner from this thread....

Well what did you expect!!!

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