A question for the organisers of the In from the Cold project

[harribobs]

There has been a rumour going around that members of the In from the Cold Project are / will receive payment for researching non-commemorations.

As much of this project is conducted via the GWF, would those involved care to comment upon this matter?

Edited 15 December , 2008 by Kate Wills

[jay dubaya]

What!!!

[harribobs]

certainly surprised me as well, but that's the information i received

[jay dubaya]

I think JH and TD should have a chance to reply before this post goes much further

[Kate Wills]

I have asked Harribobs to edit his opening post.

[dycer]

Harri,

I am an acquaintance of John but have never met Terry.

I,however think that both John and Terry, who are well able to defend themselves, will find the suggestion, research for payment a total anathema.

The Country is on its knees,financially,so it beggars belief that the MOD,an arm of Government, could afford payment for research into a previous conflict and that the Charter of the CWGC allows payment for profit to anyone not directly employed by the Commission.

I find the topic reprehensible but do not question your right to pose the question.

Best wishes.

George

[harribobs]

I have asked Harribobs to edit his opening post.

kate

i haven't received anything at all from you ?

[harribobs]

I find the topic reprehensible but do not question your right to pose the question.

Best wishes.

George

absolutely George, i agree with you

[Kate Wills]

I have no connection with the project at all, but I wonder if confusion has arisen with funding for death certificates etc required as proof by the CGWC before accepting each new commemoration?

Please see:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...he+cold+funding

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...nding&st=25

[George Armstrong Custer]

There has been a rumour going around

If it is only a rumour, and if it is something you feel so strongly about, surely the reasonable approach would have been for you to pm Terry or John rather than to introduce it into the public domain in this way at ten to one in the morning (with an inflammatory - and perhaps defamatory - thread title which makes no reference to the fact that you are only repeating a rumour).

[harribobs]

I have no connection with the project at all, but I wonder if confusion has arisen with funding for death certificates etc required as proof by the CGWC before accepting each new commemoration?

i really don't know, are you saying someone gets paid for DCs by the CGWC? we have always paid for all our research into non coms ourselves on the manchesters group

Kate, you said you have asked me to edit my post but i still haven't been asked anything

chris

If it is only a rumour, and if it is something you feel so strongly about, surely the reasonable approach would have been for you to pm Terry or John rather than to introduce it into the public domain in this way at ten to one in the morning (with an inflammatory - and perhaps defamatory - thread title which makes no reference to the fact that you are only repeating a rumour).

well maybe i am being a little kind calling it a rumour

[Kate Wills]

Chris,

I have copied my e-mailed reply via pm.

Everyone,

Chris reported his own post, and I replied "Would you oblige by reducing the hostile tone please."

[harribobs]

Kate

i'm quite happy with your edit on my opening post

[chrisharley9]

This may have come from a post of mine stating that I have received £50 courtesty of a member of the local Royal Naval Association to pay for any future naval cases that I may come across - however this will be controlled by the RNA treasurer on receipt of proof of payment of docs by myself - hope this settles any confusion on my part

Chris

[Guest KevinEndon]

We are all receiving a big fat 0 pounds for doing the work, the funding is for death certs (if we get it). All money has to be accounted for, there is no payments to the searchers, its a labor of love.

K

[George Armstrong Custer]

I'm pleased to see that the accusatory thread title has also now been edited - though I'm still of the view that the questions raised by this thread ought more properly to have been initially done off-forum with the individuals who stood accused in the original title.

[John_Hartley]

There has been a rumour going around that members of the In from the Cold Project are / will receive payment for researching non-commemorations.

Simply not true - assuming this rather offensive and, no doubt, scurrilous rumour is suggesting that individual volunteers will receive (or are receiving) payment for providing their services or, indeed, even being reimbursed for, say, travel, postage, photocopying expenses incurred.

Members will know, from several past posts/threads, that we have applied to a fund managed by the MoD to enable us to buy the death certificates that provide the necessary proof. The bid (and any funding) is very specifically related to the precise nature of the project (described on other threads, so I won't repeat here). We have not yet had a formal response to the bid but understand it is being looked on favourably.

The current state of play is that the MoD is currently talking to the General Register Office to see if there's a deal to be done. All involved in the bid would be more than happy if a deal can be done as it will remove a lot of admin - the money is simply moving between two government departments and there's no real need for IFCP to be involved as an intermediary. However, it is probable that the red tape will get in the way.

It's the nature of rumours that they appear at the worst time - in this case, when the the Project's work is on the brink of receiving recognition from the MoD and, indeed, when an article about our work is just about to appear in "Stand To" (through which we hope to add to our number of non-GWF volunteers). We can only hope that wherever this rumour started it was not intended to undermine the Project's work (Conspiracy theorists, please discuss).

In conclusion, let me be crystal clear in reassuring, in particular, existing volunteers , together with the wider community, that no-one is trousering anything here.

John

(IFCP "Volunteers Co-ordinator")

[harribobs]

Simply not true - assuming this rather offensive and, no doubt, scurrilous rumour is suggesting that individual volunteers will receive (or are receiving) payment for providing their services or, indeed, even being reimbursed for, say, travel, postage, photocopying expenses incurred.

Members will know, from several past posts/threads, that we have applied to a fund managed by the MoD to enable us to buy the death certificates that provide the necessary proof. The bid (and any funding) is very specifically related to the precise nature of the project (described on other threads, so I won't repeat here). We have not yet had a formal response to the bid but understand it is being looked on favourably.

John

i am a little confused, in the first paragraph you are saying it is untrue and in the second you are saying you have applied for funding from the MOD

[alliekiwi]

i am a little confused, in the first paragraph you are saying it is untrue and in the second you are saying you have applied for funding from the MOD

we have applied to a fund managed by the MoD to enable us to buy the death certificates that provide the necessary proof.

That seems pretty self-explanatory to me. Getting reimbursed for a death certificate is vastly different to getting paid for doing some research.

Allie

[Terry Denham]

I am flabergasted.

What is the motivation behind this thread. Malicious in the extreme.

At no time has anyone involved in IFCP been paid for their work (or will they be in future). There are many volunteers working their fingers to the bone to try and get as many non-coms accepted for CWGC commemoration. They are giving their time freely and, in some cases, have made unsolicited donations totalling about £500 which have been spent on obtaining initial supplies of death certificates to enable ther Project to submit early cases for commemoration.

Over the past year, I have been working to get official funding for the purchase of death certificates by the Project. This has not yet come to fruition but may do so shortly. Any such grant will be closely controlled by the Treasury.

NO FUNDS WILL BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE OTHER THAN THE PURCHASE OF DEATH CERTIFICATES. All other costs come out of our own pockets.

The vast majority of the work is carried on outside GWF and some volunteers are not even members.

This is a nasty, vicious attack on people genuinely try to help the cause of remembrance. Why was they question asked publically when a simple email could have solicited the answer. Who is so jealous or twisted to make such an allegation?

Harribobs - You asked a question which has now been answered. Now please answer one for us. Who made the allegation which you claim to have heard? You may PM or email me or John your answer if you wish as this should be taken further. Don't hide now that you have your answer. Please help us sort out the idiot(s) who set you up for this.

[dycer]

Chris,

I can't see any contradiction in John's Post.

As a retired Civil Servant.I worked in a Government Department that required sight of original Statutory Certificates.Occasionally these were lost or damaged within the Department.It was established practise that the Department applied to the relevant Authority for replacements,bearing any costs and returning both the original Certificate and replacement with a letter of apology.

It would appear that the bid for MOD funding is merely an extension of this established practise between Government Departments.

George

[harribobs]

Chris,

I can't see any contradiction in John's Post.

As a retired Civil Servant.I worked in a Government Department that required sight of original Statutory Certificates.Occasionally these were lost or damaged within the Department.It was established practise that the Department applied to the relevant Authority for replacements,bearing any costs and returning both the original Certificate and replacement with a letter of apology.

It would appear that the bid for MOD funding is merely an extension of this established practise between Government Departments.

George

George

i could understand that, if this was between Government departments

Terry

my information was that you were or were about to receive funds from the MOD, you have confirmed this.

i am interested in how this will be accounted for and who to

chris

[chrisharley9]

Im with TD & JH on this one - this seems to be intent on fingerpointing at a group of people who intentions are more than honourable; who give up their time & cash freely. How dare anyone accuse us of trying to make a bob or two

Chris

[Terry Denham]

Chris

Your initial post consists almost entirely of the the phrase "members of the In from the Cold Project are / will receive payment for researching non-commemorations". There is no mention of funding by MoD but an implication of something untoward.

We have no funding from MoD as yet - and there may be none. You are jumping the gun. If any grant is made, and I stess 'IF', the documentation I had to sign to make the application about six months ago sets out strict audit controls by the Treasury. No doubt, if the bid is successful, I will learn more about the mechanics of how it works. Until then, I can give no more detail. However, members of the Project will have full details when/if that situation occurs.

Now, yet again, I have answered your question. So, please have the courtesy to answer mine. Who passed this malicious rumour to you? I do not wish to put you in an awkward position so please feel free to answer off Forum. Please do not try to deflect the discussion from the fact that you are guilty of spreading a malicious rumour without bothering to check its veracity.

You have cast doubt on the honour and good intentions of members of the Project (intentionally or unintentionally). Many of those volunteers are members of this Forum and some are not. However, they all deserve to have your slur removed.

[harribobs]

the content of my original post was changed by Kate but the gist is still the same although i did make reference to the MOD or CWGC as i was unsure which was providing funding, which is synonymous with payment,

there is no malicious rumour, it has proved to be the truth. i posted directly to this forum as the majority here would be able to witness the transparency of my query, i am still interested in how this payment, the amount, who it will be paid to, and how it will be accounted for. This is Tax Payers money