Bradford WW1 Group Posted 14 December , 2008 Share Posted 14 December , 2008 I'm researching a Belgian who was a Sub Lieutenant with RND attached to Oliver Backhouse's staff at Gallipoli. I have his diary which covers February - July 1915. His record card at NA merely states ;attached to Howe Btn as interpreter' but it's clear from the diary that he also served as transport officer during 2nd battle of Krithia - and various other duties. Can anyone help in explaining how and why he should be enlisted with a British unit and given a rank? In June 1915 he was ordered back to England by Hamilton, despite Backhouse requesting he remain. On his return to London he left the service and in Nov 1915 enlisted with the Belgian artillery and proceeded to Eu in Normandy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 14 December , 2008 Share Posted 14 December , 2008 It may help if you are able to name the individual. A couple of suggestions to follow up: 1) You could contact Len Sellers who is as knowledgable as it gets on the RND. 2) Have you chased down the service record for him which should be at the Fleet Air Arm Museum/Archive? I wonder if he had departed Belgium as a refugee and volunteered and been selected for his knowledge of French - the RND were adjacent to the French at Gallipoli and often needed to liaise. Just a thought! PS The Bradford book is excellent - I very much enjoyed it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradford WW1 Group Posted 15 December , 2008 Author Share Posted 15 December , 2008 It may help if you are able to name the individual. A couple of suggestions to follow up: 1) You could contact Len Sellers who is as knowledgable as it gets on the RND. 2) Have you chased down the service record for him which should be at the Fleet Air Arm Museum/Archive? I wonder if he had departed Belgium as a refugee and volunteered and been selected for his knowledge of French - the RND were adjacent to the French at Gallipoli and often needed to liaise. Just a thought! PS The Bradford book is excellent - I very much enjoyed it! Many thanks for the compliment: I'm the surviving author! Name of RND man: G van der Kindere. Thanks for info re Fleet Air Arm Museum which I'll follow up. I have the Len Sellers book. My man isn't listed but it would be worth contacting Len: where is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 15 December , 2008 Share Posted 15 December , 2008 In Len Sellers' 'RND' journal (Issue No.7 pp 564 and 566) there are two mentions of "Van der Kinder". The article is the diary of Captain FJ Thompson OBE RD RNR. He commanded HMT ROYAL GEORGE which transported Howe Bn to Gallipoli. On 3 May 1915 at Cape Helles he recorded "Van der Kinder comes off and gives me some news ..." and on 11 May 1915 "Lieut Commander Ingar and Van der Kinder came on board in the forenoon ...". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradford WW1 Group Posted 15 December , 2008 Author Share Posted 15 December , 2008 In Len Sellers' 'RND' journal (Issue No.7 pp 564 and 566) there are two mentions of "Van der Kinder". The article is the diary of Captain FJ Thompson OBE RD RNR. He commanded HMT ROYAL GEORGE which transported Howe Bn to Gallipoli. On 3 May 1915 at Cape Helles he recorded "Van der Kinder comes off and gives me some news ..." and on 11 May 1915 "Lieut Commander Ingar and Van der Kinder came on board in the forenoon ...". Is the RND journal on line? I MUST follow this up. The diary mentions Royal George many times (with affection) and on 3 July 1915 'What a joy to see the dear old ship . . . Capt Thompson is happy to see me again'. He then tells the Capt of the great losses suffered by his chums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 15 December , 2008 Share Posted 15 December , 2008 'RND' is not on-line but this thread will tell you where you can see it. http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...;hl=len+sellers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted 15 December , 2008 Share Posted 15 December , 2008 If he entered the Belgian Army, there should be something of his file left in the Belgian archives. Try: Xavier VAN TILBORG, Adjudant HRG-A/N-Archieven Kwartier Koningin Elisabeth Eversestraat, 1 1140 EVERE blok 6C BELGIUM Tel : 0032 2 701 31 78 e-mail : xavier.vantilborg@mil.be It is possible that you need his date of birth or the date of his enlistment in the Belgian Army. Grtz, Niko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 15 December , 2008 Share Posted 15 December , 2008 Sub Lt van der Kindere does not appear in any of the contemporary Navy Lists as being either on the 2nd Bde Staff or attached to Howe Bn. He obviously had some special status, given his ability to travel off-shore to the ships standing off Gallipoli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdr Posted 15 December , 2008 Share Posted 15 December , 2008 Is this Georges Van der Kindere ?(graduated in law at the Université de Bruxelles) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradford WW1 Group Posted 16 December , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2008 Is this Georges Van der Kindere ?(graduated in law at the Université de Bruxelles) Yes. I have him graduating in 1914 and being 'fluent in English'. Do you have any more information about him, his degree or his subsequent career? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradford WW1 Group Posted 16 December , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2008 If he entered the Belgian Army, there should be something of his file left in the Belgian archives. Try: Xavier VAN TILBORG, Adjudant HRG-A/N-Archieven Kwartier Koningin Elisabeth Eversestraat, 1 1140 EVERE blok 6C BELGIUM Tel : 0032 2 701 31 78 e-mail : xavier.vantilborg@mil.be It is possible that you need his date of birth or the date of his enlistment in the Belgian Army. Grtz, Niko. Thanks for this, Niko. I have already obtained his papers: extremely helpful at the Brussels archives but the records don't tell me very much at all. I still don't know how or why he joined a British unit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 17 December , 2008 Share Posted 17 December , 2008 Bradford..... As the 63rd RN Div were at Antwerp initially could it have been likely that he was taken on there as ,someone suggests,an interpreter and stayed with the Divn to Gallipoli a short time later ? Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradford WW1 Group Posted 17 December , 2008 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2008 Bradford..... As the 63rd RN Div were at Antwerp initially could it have been likely that he was taken on there as ,someone suggests,an interpreter and stayed with the Divn to Gallipoli a short time later ? Sotonmate Yes - I think Antwerp could be the link. But it seems a bit irregular for him to be given a commission (sub-lieut) and eventually end up being transport officer at 2nd Battle of Krithia. Although, having read Compton Mackenzie's account of his time with the RND, 'irregular' seems to have been part of their cherished image as 'not army' (land forces but with navy ranks and navy traditions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted 18 December , 2008 Share Posted 18 December , 2008 Yes - I think Antwerp could be the link. But it seems a bit irregular for him to be given a commission (sub-lieut) and eventually end up being transport officer at 2nd Battle of Krithia. Although, having read Compton Mackenzie's account of his time with the RND, 'irregular' seems to have been part of their cherished image as 'not army' (land forces but with navy ranks and navy traditions). The link could just as well be Ostend, the RM Brigade was send there in late august 1914..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 18 December , 2008 Share Posted 18 December , 2008 Bradford... have PM'd you with some info ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 19 December , 2008 Share Posted 19 December , 2008 Bradford We'd quite like to know too if Martin has provided an answer ! Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradford WW1 Group Posted 19 December , 2008 Author Share Posted 19 December , 2008 Bradford We'd quite like to know too if Martin has provided an answer ! Sotonmate Yep! I'm all a-tremble too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradford WW1 Group Posted 19 December , 2008 Author Share Posted 19 December , 2008 Bradford... have PM'd you with some info ..... Ah! I've received your PM. Thanks for the phone number. I'll ring Len and discuss what I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 19 December , 2008 Share Posted 19 December , 2008 I hear on the grapevine that Len Sellers bok on WW1 spies has been listed by Stella Rimington as the No.1 espionage book ahead of volumes on people like Blunt & Philby ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrenPen Posted 15 March , 2018 Share Posted 15 March , 2018 This is a reply to a very old post, and I apologise in advance, but before progressing further, it would be great to know what else was found out about the aforementioned Georges Van der Kindere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrenPen Posted 15 March , 2018 Share Posted 15 March , 2018 He may not be alone; I believe I have found two other Belgians. Martin Gievers appears to be on loan to the RND from the Belgian Army. His MIC records that he is a gunner. This implies the soldier is an artilleryman and not a (Naval) Warrant Officer Gunner. He has a Crystal Palace card (ADM 339) - in fact he has two, owing to the variation in his surname. Although he was never commissioned in the British Army, he was medically discharged from the RND, and received a Silver War Badge as a Lieutenant , number 155740. There is a character with the name of Jacobs. He is in a photo that the IWM have, and is labelled as Lieutenant Interpreter. His MIC states his name as W Jacobs De Laire, and a 1914 Star medal application is made on his behalf on 16 July 1918 by Mrs A Murray, 121 London Road, Bromley, Kent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 15 March , 2018 Share Posted 15 March , 2018 I think you mean ANDREW Gievers/Gevers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrenPen Posted 15 March , 2018 Share Posted 15 March , 2018 Yes, this is correct. I'm punch-drunk on data, so thanks for the correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted 13 March , 2019 Share Posted 13 March , 2019 Jacobs is in the back row, second from left: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205316385 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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