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Duncan

Victory II

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Duncan

Any idea what went on at HMS Victory II - I'm assuming it's at Portsmouth?

Cheers,

Duncan.

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joseph

Duncan

HMS VICTORY II, Shorebase, Crystal Palace/Sydenham, training Depot for Royal Navy Divisions.

Regards Charles

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per ardua per mare per terram

Not that close to Portsmouth ;) It was a case of admistrative flexability.

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Signals

HMSVictory II, i've only been finding this was for Stokers and ERA's, will stand corrected by someone who knows more!

DB

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joseph

Would that be pre WW1 Darren?

Regards Charles

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Signals

Hi Charles,

did a word search on my notes, and yes Stokers and ERA's, 1898 to 1228 is the range where they have HMS Victory II on their papers, not sure if that means the same place or wheather it had this name for different establishments. I find the same for Vivid II as well, for stokers and ERA's, a pattern?

Cheers DB.

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Signals

Just a correction on the last post i did, it was 1928 and not 1228, bit early Victory II i guess.

DB

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joseph

Darren

Victory II Aug 1914 to 21/03/1919 was as above, before Aug 1914 Victory II was the Division that administered Stokers and ERA's, same for Vivid and Pembroke. There was a lot of Stokers in the RND but not many ERA's at all.

Regards Charles

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Signals

Hi Charles,

re the comment of not many ERA's via HMS Victory II, i just checked my notes of just one submarine, and the 5 ERA's that served on her during WW1l had all been through HMS Victory II. Plus all the Stokers on the sub did the same.

Cheers DB.

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joseph

Darren,

If they went through Victory II during the war it must have performed a duel role. During the war Victory II administered the Royal Naval Division training at Crystal Palace and Sydenham a huge task which would require a running 'Divisional Administration' to cope.

Regards Charles

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Signals

Hi Charles,

certainly something changed when i put these men's papers togeteher. All Stokers and ERA's have Victory II on their papers rof and on up to WW1, and then directly after it, but none during.

I'll look at another crew list shortly, and just a quick browse i can see she had one ERA on the books of Victory II in 1915.

DB.

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Signals

Hi Charles,

certainly something changed when i put these men's papers togeteher. All Stokers and ERA's have Victory II on their papers rof and on up to WW1, and then directly after it, but none during.

I'll look at another crew list shortly, and just a quick browse i can see she had one ERA on the books of Victory II in 1915.

DB.

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Signals

Hi Charles,

just had a thought, these men would not have been on Victory II's books during WW1 at times of being shore based, as they had all joined the submarine service and would be on the books of HMS Dolphin instead, and only when they all left submarines would they rejoin HMS Victory II.

Cheers DB.

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per ardua per mare per terram

These books are for admininstrative purpose and do not always indicate a man's physical location. However, if Darren you are indicating that the men were on the books for short periods it may reflect them being on leave in London, instructing or giving courses.

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Signals

I'm finding they quite often went on the books of HMS Victory II for reasons such as travel after serving at overseas outposts and so on. So your right, i guess this means Victory II could cover all sorts of other reasons. Submariners would go on the books of Dolphin when travelling to places such as the Baltic, or going on unlisted courses such as hyrdophone training later in the war.

But i'm only seeing Stokers and ERA's on the books of Victory II from my research, and able seaman and signalman and so on on Victory I.

Cheers DB.

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Signals

Hi All,

just out of interest i have just gone through about 40 men who served on one submarine during WW1, now this was for their service before and after the submarines, and before and after WWI. So if you with the surface fleet you would go onto these names when standing by a completing warship in the dockyards, when you were training or the trainer, or when you were transiting to an out station when not on a warship and so on.

HMS Victory II, for Portsmouth Ratings had 3x ERA's, 7 x Stokers, 1 x LTO, and i x Leading Seaman, all other Portsmouth ratings were HMS Victory I, these included Able Seaman, Signalman and so on. I had only one Leading Seaman with Victory III.

HMS Pemboke II for Chatham ratings, 1 x ERA, 3 x Stokers, all other Chatham ratings were HMS Pembroke I, these included Able Seaman, Signalman and so on.

HMS Vivid II for Devonport Ratings, 1 x ERA, 1 x Stoker, all other Devonport ratings were HMS Pembroke I, these included Able Seaman, Signalman and so on.

Just thought you may be interested.

DB.

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joseph

During WW1 Victory II was at Crystal Palace, its move was due to the influx of personell and they required a functioning Divisional Admistration for the paperwork, the ERA's and Stokers moved to Victory I.

Regards Charles

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Signals

Hi Charles,

from the men i'm looking at, some of these submariners got out of the service just after the start of 1917, and in doing so these stokers and ERA's go straight over to HMS Victory II, not Victory I. I have yet to see, and this is only looking at the papers of 80 submariner's papers, of stokers going onto the books of Victory I.

My pervious post i had Devonport Ratings going to Pembroke I, just a cut and paste typo.

DB.

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joseph

Darren,

Must have kept the Submariner Clankys and Stokers on the books of Victory II then, I wonder if it was on paper or if the travelled to London for release etc.

Regards Charles

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The Inspector

Hi all

My g/father (never met him) is shown at Victory II Apr- July 1915 after having been sentenced to detention for "Run"-ning, He then served on HMS Canada. He was a Stoker. So I presume they also looked after the bad boys as well.

Regards Barry

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horatio2
During WW1 Victory II was at Crystal Palace, its move was due to the influx of personell and they required a functioning Divisional Admistration for the paperwork, the ERA's and Stokers moved to Victory I.

Do you have any evidence for the offices of HMS VICTORY II being physically located "at Crystal Palace"? There is clear evidence from RND Records that early RNVR men under training for the RND at CP were borne on the books of VICTORY VI. They transferred to VICTORY III and VICTORY IV on moving to Blandford. On embarkation for the MEF they transferred to VICTORY III.

Looking at later in the war, RND men were borne on the books of VICTORY IX (Reserve Bns), VICTORY III (2nd Drake Bn), VICTORY VI (Misc Bn at Crystal Palace). No VICTORY pay offices were located at Blandford to my knowledge. Battalions in the MEF in 1917 were on the books of VICTORY IV.

I think there is much confusion about the location of these offices and there is a strong possibility that all the VICTORY pay offices (I, II, III, IV etc) were located in and around Portsmouth. There was no reason for anything other than a small admin unit to be physically co-located with the men they administered at CP (or anywhere else). Following your example VICTORY IV should be at CP as well.

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centurion
Just a correction on the last post i did, it was 1928 and not 1228, bit early Victory II i guess.

DB

I did wonder about HMS Tardis - very eccentric captain though - Fisher wouldn't have liked him

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Signals

Hi Horatio,

Your comments are in part why I have persisted with the thread. I have a few more submarines I will go through and post the results. I’m dealing with very few reservists.

I’m also trying to go through the diaries & memoirs of some men to see exactly what they were doing when on the books of certain Victories or Pembrokes and so on.

So does anyone see anything else on Victory II other than Stokers and ERA’s?

DB.

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g0bby-1

Having checked the service record of my mothers great uncle, I found he was at Victory II several times, and he was a stoker.

Once precceding a stint at Victory II, he was assigned to Dolphin from 31st August 1912 until 31st October 1913. If I have read the thread properly so far, could he have been a submariner for a time ?

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Signals

Hi Gobby

Yes he could have been. I think from memory the date you give for him joining Dolphin is when she was commisioned as the sub base. He could have also been on the depot ship or an attached vessel to Dolphin.

If you send me a personal message with his papers, or your email address, i can check and see the progression of ships.

Some men you write off as not being submariners as they only have one depot ship listed and no obvious progression like Dolphin, Maidstone, Thames, Vulcan and so on, but i have seen many that have had one depot ship, such as Dolphin, and were killed on a submarine.

Cheers DB

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