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Skipman

German POW's

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Skipman

2h3zz0n.jpg

Thought would share this photo of German POW's,don't know where or when.

Mike

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themonsstar

It looks like one of the Frith Hill Pics.

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Moonraker

Quite likely. Having ploughed thousands of Great War postcards at fairs, I can say that the only PoW camps regularly featured are Dorchester and Frith Hill very early in the war. Regulations were soon introduced prohibiting photography of prisoners, though some posed-shot cards do exist, the photographs obviously taken with the subjects' consent and perhaps for sending home families.

Moonraker

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Doug Johnson

Although the photograph looks similar to the ones for Frith Hill, I suspect many of the camps were very similar in construction and that this camp was a temporary one like Frith Hill that does not appear to have been used all year round by permanent occupants. I do not really look out for photographs of camps in Britain but I do have some of Handforth (taken around 1917) and Lancaster (around 1915) and a number of groups from other camps. The fact that the photographer appears to be from Perth may indicate that the above photograph was taken somewhere around there.

Doug

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mtaylor

I don't think this is Perthshire - there were only small work camps in the area, though it is a Perth photographic studio. Might have been a photo taken on a trip south or perhaps there was some sort of synication of photos from elsewhere. Where did the original appear?

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Brian Curragh
I do not really look out for photographs of camps in Britain but I do have some of Handforth (taken around 1917) and Lancaster (around 1915) and a number of groups from other camps.

Doug

Doug

Have you many photographs of the camp at Lancaster? I wanted to see if it was possible to work out where it was located - unless someone already knows the answer?

Regards

Brian

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centurion
Regulations were soon introduced prohibiting photography of prisoners,

Possibly because it broke the Hague Convention

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Doug Johnson

Brian,

The photograph has the street name on it. I will look it up to get the correct address but It was something like Wagonworks Lane. The image is of a large brick building which is presumably the works. I will scan it and post it here at the weekend.

Doug

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Brian Curragh

Doug

Thanks - that would be very helpful. I am not having a lot of luck getting anywhere locating this - so any clues would be a start!

Regards

Brian

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Doug Johnson

According to the maps, the Wagon Works, which is where the prisoners were kept, was to the west of Caton Road, South of where the canal crosses it, and just south of Lansil Way ie just next to the fat part of the Lune.

Doug

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Brian Curragh

Doug

Thanks, I know where you are talking about - it's the industrial area between Caton Road & the Lune - with a long continuous brick building facing onto Caton Road.

If I PM you my email address, could you please email me the scan of the photo when you have had a chance to do it? I would like to see it in as much resolution as possible.

Many thanks

Brian

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Doug Johnson

This is Lancaster. The postcard was postally used in 1915. The text reads "Prisoners of war detention barracks, Wagonworks Lane". The building is such that I can't imagine anyone photographing it for its beauty so I guess that the photograph is contemporary with it being a detention centre (for civilians).

post-7895-1234606724.jpg

Brian,

If you pm me with your address I will send a much larger scan.

Doug

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Brian Curragh

Doug

That's the building I was thinking of - I have sent you a PM.

Thanks again for your help.

Brian

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Brian Curragh
If you pm me with your address I will send a much larger scan.

Doug

Doug

Scan received so many thanks - I should be up in Lancaster next month so will take the same shot & post it as a "Then & now"

Regards

Brian

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midgemeg

I have a postcard of the Prisoners' compound at Newbury Race Course which has some of the features shown in the card. The card is taken from further away to show at least 50 bell tents and the wire fence is exactly the same in its construction. There appears to be a parade ground next to the compound and this is surrounded by another similar wire fence. Going round the whole site seems to be a row of tall poles with cable strung (lighting?). It has already been mentioned that the camps were laid out in a similar fashion and so my card is probably different to yours!

The Newbury card is by Tufnail of Newbury.

Thank you Doug for the super photo of the POW camp in Lancaster. I pass it every time I go to my WFA meeting and had not a clue! I do have some POW sent from Lancaster and until today I had been to lazy to look the camp up in Graham Mark's book.

Andrew

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Brian Curragh
Thank you Doug for the super photo of the POW camp in Lancaster. I pass it every time I go to my WFA meeting and had not a clue! I do have some POW sent from Lancaster and until today I had been to lazy to look the camp up in Graham Mark's book.

Andrew

Andrew

When you get a chance, can you see what Graham Mark's book has to say about Lancaster please?

Many thanks

Brian

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midgemeg
Andrew

When you get a chance, can you see what Graham Mark's book has to say about Lancaster please?

Many thanks

Brian

Hi Brian,

It runs to 2xA4 almost. I will try to scan it but do not know if I will be able to post it. Have not done this for a while. Give me 24 hours!

Andrew

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Brian Curragh
Hi Brian,

It runs to 2xA4 almost. I will try to scan it but do not know if I will be able to post it. Have not done this for a while. Give me 24 hours!

Andrew

Andrew

Thanks. PM sent

Regards

Brian

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Brian Curragh

Updating the postcard of Lancaster Wagon Works that Doug posted in post#12 - this is the scene today - basically unchanged except for the chimneys that have been taken down.

post-9084-1239023596.jpg

Brian

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Doug Johnson

Brian,

The building looks like it is good condition. Any idea what is current use is?

Doug

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Brian Curragh

Doug

The area of what was presumably a railway yard and lies behind the building is now occupied by various light industrial units. The buildings themselves seem to be used for storing what looked like pipework.

This is a shot through the main gate in the tower.

post-9084-1239044292.jpg

So some of the original buildings in the yard area have also survived.

Regards

Brian

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Brian Curragh

I came across this reference to the Wagon Works in Robert Graves' "Goodbye to all that" yesterday :

Pages 63-64

"After only three weeks on the Square, I went off on detachment duty, to a newly-formed internment camp for enemy aliens at Lancaster. The camp was a disused waggon-works near the river, a dirty, draughty place, littered with old scrap metal and guarded by high barbed-wire fences. About three thousand prisoners had already arrived there, and more and more crowded in every day: seamen arrested on German vessels in Liverpool harbour, waiters from large hotels in the North, an odd German band or two, harmless German commercial travellers and shopkeepers. The prisoners resented being interned, particularly family men who had lived in peace in England for many years."

And :

"In the summer of 1915, The Times reprinted a German newspaper account by Herr Wolff, an exchanged prisoner of his experiences at Lancaster in 1914. ... Wolff reported that even children were interned in the camp; and this was also true. A dozen or so little boys from the German bands had been interned because it seemed more humane to keep them with their friends than to send them to a workhouse. But their moral safety in the camp caused the commandant great concern."

[Wolff was a waiter from the Midland Hotel in Manchester]

And :

"But after a while the prisoners settled down to sullen docility, starting hobbies, glee parties, games and plans for escape. I had far more trouble with my Welshmen, who were always escaping from their quarters, though I guarded all possible exits. Finally I discovered that they had been crawling out through a sewer. They boasted of their successes with the women."

Graves appears to have been at Lancaster in September & October 1914.

Brian

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