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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Charles Croxon Smith


Janet Smith

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I am trying to find information about Sergeant Charles Croxon Smith, Royal Garrison Artillery. His regimental no. was 65532, Nominal Roll page 3079 and Medal Roll no. 131B. A friend found this information for me but I have no idea where to go next! I have a photo of him in uniform and in 1914 he would have been aged 53. Is it possible at that age he actually served? Presumably in some administrative position? I also have a photo of his son, Frank Gordon Smith (aka Gordon Frank Smith) taken at the same time, also in the RGA. If anyone could point me in the right direction regarding Charles (and his son) I would be most grateful.

Janet Smith

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Hi, Janet.

Welcome to the board.

I know you have it already, but here is Charles C Smith's Medal Index Card for other people to have a look at in case they can help.

post-13541-1226990606.jpg

As you can see, Charles was awarded the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. The BWM and VM were supposed to be awarded to those who served in some capacity in the theatre of war, but I'm fairly certain administration positions qualfied as long as they were not at home in Britain. However, someone may correct me on that.

It's a shame the areas 'Theatre of war first served in' and 'Date of entry therein' are not filled in, because that would tell you when and where he served. (France and Flanders versus the Balkans, Egypt etc). One thing we do know is that he was not overseas in 1914 or 1915 otherwise he'd have qualified for the 1914/15 star.

Do you know for certain this is the correct Charles, by the way? Do you have his medals which provide the service number, or something else that ties your Charles Smith to this Charles Smith? There are a fair few hundred men named Charles Smith otherwise, and over 100 of these were in the Royal Garrison Artillery.

Allie

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Welcome to the forum Janet

If this is the right man someone needs to look at the medal roll: these are original documents at Kew, not online. Sometimes they record which unit of the RGA a man served with.

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Gnr. 65532 Charles C Smith would have enlisted at the start of November 1915 and from is MIC, and time served, would have been unlikely to become a Sergeant. If you have him in uniform in 1914 then it is very unlikely to be this man. The only other likely date for enlistment is 1887, but again he would be shown as a Sergeant.

Where did they live? Perhaps Charles Smith stayed in Britain, and both he and his son were members of a TF RGA unit. IF the photo you have shows cap badge and shoulder title it may be worth posting that.

Kevin

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The medal rolls for Gnr. 65532 Charles C Smith shows his second name as Cushion. So unusual that I have done a quick search and there was a Charles Cushion Smith registered born 1893 Leeds district. I assume your relative is the one born 1861 Maldon district. I can only suggest, given his age, that he enlisted at the start of the war with the Special Reserve, which would indicate previous military experience, but stayed in Britain.

Of the 4 Frank C Smiths ( http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...mp;mediaarray=* )

23489 and 294076 have a middle name George.

160366, from the medal rolls, has a middle name Gordon, but you will have to obtain the other medal roll details for 358474 to see if he is a possibility. I can say that 358474 inidcates someone serving in the Kent Fortress RGA, although this may not definitely rule him out if he came from another area, depending on when he enlisted.

Did Frank Gordon live at 54 Mount St., London in 1915? Maybe working Birmingham.

Kevin

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Thanks, Kevin. So it doesn't sound like Gnr. 65532 Charles C Smith is Janet's Charles Croxon Smith.

Janet, because you've posted less than 10 times here, I don't think you're able to upload photographs through the board. However, you can put up a photograph if it is hosted off-site on a free site such as www.photobucket.com or similar. Another option is to email a scan of the photo to me and I'll put it up for you. Let me know if you'd like me to do that, and I'll PM you my email address.

A photograph would be very useful at this stage s we might be able to get more clues from the uniforms which will potentially help us date the photograph etc.

Allie

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Thanks everyone for your replies! I'm certain the Charles C Smith no. 65532 is not my Charles. I have a photo which I can send - thanks Allie for your offer - let me know where I can send it to. Don't think Frank Gordon was ever living at Mount Street London - he was married and living in Islington in 1915 and also when he was married in 1912. On the back of his photo he has written "to my dear wife from Hal, Belgium" and "Many happy returns" - the date is a bit faint, but I am pretty sure it is about the time of his wife's birthday. Can't understand why he would have called himself Hal though. He is also in uniform and can send that if any of you think it would help!

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Hi, Janet

I've sent you a PM with my email address. If you look along the top right of the board you'll see the following:

My Controls · View New Posts · My Assistant · My Friends · 0 New Messages

Actually, it'll probably say 1 New Messages, since there'll be one from me. :) Click there.

Yes, interesting that Frank/Gordon calls himself 'Hal' - that's usually a nickname for Harold or Henry! Yes, send that photo, too. We may as well try for all the clues we can!

Allie

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Here's Janet's picture of CC Smith.

post-13541-1227172798.jpg

It looks to me like he was a Company Quartermaster Serjeant (CQMS). Is that listed on MICs? Or is it Battery Quarter Master Serjeant in the RGA? But it could be the RFA instead, I think?

Allie

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Just searching by 'Smith' 'Artillery' and 'Quarter Master Serjeant' gives us a few options (unless I'm totally on the wrong track here):

Smith, C

Corps: Royal Field Artillery

Regiment No: 26737

Rank: Farrier Quarter Master Serjeant

Smith, C

Corps: Royal Field Artillery

Regiment No: 2744

Rank: Battery Quarter Master Serjeant

Smith, Charles

Corps: Royal Field Artillery

Regiment No: 3371 / 630637

Rank: Battery Quarter Master Serjeant

Smith, Charles

Corps: Royal Field Artillery

Regiment No: 88323

Rank: Farrier Quarter Master Serjeant

Corps: Army Veterinary Corps

Regiment No: SE36415

Rank: Warrant Officer Class 2

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Bumping to see if someone can help.

To be honest, I have trouble telling if there is a difference between RGA and RFA hat badges - if there is one. Is there some little knack to it like there is between the Royal Engineers and Royal Artillery collar dogs with how many flames there are? (I understand the RA had seven whilst the RE had nine.)

Also, for the top photo, is he a QMS? Or is he wearing a trade badge of some kind?

Allie

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Thank you all you military people for your help so far! Do you mind if I just look on at present - all these technicalities and abbreviations leave me behind! I do appreciate your interest and assistance - keep up the good work!

Janet Smith

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Janet

I know this is a bit of a late reply but I have been puzzling over the use of Croxon as yr persons middle name.

Part of my family tree contains Croxons (my grandmother) from Essex and on looking at the tree I find that C C Smith

was born in 1861, which of course made him 53 in 1914. If you are also interested in family history I can give you further details

via pm if you wish

David/Canberra

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Janet, it might be an idea to go back to your first post and edit the title to add in 'RGA/RFA' so that experts in that field might tke a look at this thread. You'll see a button labelled 'Edit' on the bottom right hand side o the post.

Abbreviations:

RGA = Royal Garrison Artillery

RFA = Royal Field Artillery

RA = Royal Artillery

RE = Royal Engineers

MIC = Medal Index Card (like theone I posted a picture of at the top of the thread)

CQMS = Company Quarter Master Serjeant/Sergeant

TF = Territorial Force

I think that's all the ones we used...

Allie

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Janet, it might be an idea to go back to your first post and edit the title to add in 'RGA/RFA' so that experts in that field might tke a look at this thread. You'll see a button labelled 'Edit' on the bottom right hand side o the post.

Abbreviations:

RGA = Royal Garrison Artillery

RFA = Royal Field Artillery

RA = Royal Artillery

RE = Royal Engineers

MIC = Medal Index Card (like theone I posted a picture of at the top of the thread)

CQMS = Company Quarter Master Serjeant/Sergeant

TF = Territorial Force

I think that's all the ones we used...

Allie

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