ply16992 Trevor Gordon Burtonshaw RMLI

[ellasian]

I know quite a bit about my Great Gandad, even though he died before my father was born.

He was No Ply 16992 Trevor Gordon Burtonshaw Royal Marine Light Inf.

My Grandfather gave me Marine Burtonshaws fork, it has his initials and service number on it.

I have his certificate of discharge, he joined up in Bristol 22-8-14, he was dischraged 30-10-19 in consequence of "Invalidid".

I know he was sent to the Dardanelles.

under engagements it says - MEF Dardanelles 25 April 15 - 10 Jan 1916

then, Served (in what looks like) either Staff,Half or Hels Fleet? What was this ? between 7 Dec 16 - 30 june 18

6 sept 18 - 8 feb 19

9 feb 19 - 13 june 19

14 june 19 - 31 july 19.

On his discharge papers it shows he was given a War Badge No 433XX (I'm not saying just in case someone says they have it, I am interested in buying it or one though )

and In possession of, or entitled to reckon, "One" Good Conduct Badge(s). I can't find any pictures or references to these badges anywhere on the net!!!! What was it?

Medals "Nil"

His conduct was "Very Good"

I have pictures of his papers and of him but I don't know how to get them small enough to fit the 100k limit

I don't know if anyone knows how to find out where he went in the Dardanelles or what he did on the dates shown after 10/01/1916 or what he was invalidid out for.

My Dad tells me he was in a bit of a mess when he came home. He had terrible rashes,diabetes and was deaf. He started a Greengrocers after the war, but lost it because he wouldn't make people pay their bill if they were skint due to "the recesion in the 1920's". I think he became a postman for a while. He died in his forties as he couldn't afford his medicine.

My dad says he was told by family, "they could either eat or buy his insulin" !

I would be very greatful if anyone can ellaborate on the info I have.

Marcus Burtonshaw

[sotonmate]

MB

You ask a lot,and I need to be outside scraping leaves !!

I will help with a part of your story.

The War Badge is a Silver War Badge given to wounded and discharged personnel. It was issued to wear on their civvy clothes to deflect criticism of them "not doing their bit". The number on the back has been recorded in the original Medal Roll records which are kept at Kew Archives. You say Medals NIL,well if he was at Gallipoli in 1915 he would automatically get the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. Maybe too,the 1915 Star,but I am not sure whether this was issued in all Theatres of War,someone will say. The issue of his WW1 medals would be listed in ADM171/92 at Kew.

The Good Conduct Badge was certainly an RN issue, and I guess an RM issue,after a number of years good service one (stripe?) was issued,followed by others at various times.

Also,someone here will tell you how to reduce your pic so that it will fit here,there is a format which ensures it's size for this Forum.

Sotonmate

[ellasian]

Thank you Sir.

It's strange, but the certificate does say "nil" medals, I know I would want one if I spent 1 hour on the cliffs there in 1915 let alone the best part of a year.

Please could anyone tell me if ADM171/92 available online?

thanks again Sotonmate.

MB

[horatio2]

Trevor Gordon Burtonshaw was entitled to 1914-15 Star and British War and Victory Medals according to the RM medal roll. It is difficult to tell from your description of the records you hold, but have you obtained his papers from the FAAM? Interestingly, his RND Record Card (one of very few to survive for RMLI men in the RND) is held with his FAAM papers and this should give good detail of his RND service with the Mediterranean Expeditionary Force to the Dardanelles.

What information I do have shows that he was in Deal Battalion RND (later 1st RM Battalion) from Feb 1915 to Feb 1916, so seems to have served right through the Gallipoli campaign.

[ellasian]

Good god, thanks.

I only have his Certificate of Discharge and his fork! Oh and his chin and nose!

BTW they spelt our name wrong!

Horatio2 I am endebted to you.

Thank you very very much

Marcus Burtonshaw

[sotonmate]

MB

So how did "they" spell his name? If one looked for his record would it be under Burtenshaw or Burtonshaw or Burtinshaw etc.

ADM171/92 records I think are not online,though you can pay for a download I am not sure if you can be individual-specific,it may be that you get,say all A-D records. I don't know for sure.

Sotonmate

[horatio2]

BTW they spelt our name wrong!

No "they" did not - I did. Apologies for the error in transcription.

The FAAM record may include the reason for his invaliding in September 1919 (or may not).

By the way his SWB number is public knowledge - but I will not spoil your concealment.

You cannot download ADM 171.

He did claim his medals.

Ref your other thread - ADM 159 records are NOT on-line.

[ellasian]

you are a Knight in shinning armour Sir.

My spelling is crapp too!

Mam and Dad are so excited. they will be onto FAAM in the morrow I'm sure.

One interesting point, we have picture of my GGdad and lots of other marines in white on a ship I think, there is a large bell with euphrates written on it, but at the front is a young boy with HMS Bermuda on his headband?

thanks again Marcus

[ellasian]

MB

So how did "they" spell his name? If one looked for his record would it be under Burtenshaw or Burtonshaw or Burtinshaw etc.

ADM171/92 records I think are not online,though you can pay for a download I am not sure if you can be individual-specific,it may be that you get,say all A-D records. I don't know for sure.

Sotonmate

Burtonshaw.

thanks to you too.

MB

[ellasian]

One more question. How many men in Deal Btn?

If spoken to FAAM, a nice Lady is sending me G Grandads papers

I'll take the hat around the Burtonshaw households to muster a donation.

[horatio2]

How long is a piece of string? The war complement of the battalion was of the order of 30 officers and 975 ORs but the operations at Gallipoli took a terrible toll. By late July 1915 the losses (dead, wounded and sick) were such that Deal Battalion was merged with what was left of Chatham Battalion to form a new 1st RM Battalion and that was probably well under-strength. All of the RND battalions at Gallipoli were seriously under-strength throughout 1915, below half-strength not being unusual.

[ellasian]

Oh! So he's lucky he got home at all?

But, there should have been a total of about a 1000 men in a Btn.

Thanks again

[horatio2]

One cannot generalise but analysis has shown that, in one platoon of Nelson Battalion of the RND (about 50 men), the chances of being killed in action or mortally wounded was over 30%. The chances of dying or having a survivable wound was about 70%. The chances of serving through the eight months of the Gallipoli campaign without being killed, wounded or falling ill (typhus, dysentry etc) was close to zero. Anyone who came through the eight months unscathed was a lucky man indeed.

[ellasian]

So I'm extremely lucky to have existed at all? That is quite frightening - for me.

As we think Trevor was out there for the whole "expedition".......!

[ellasian]

Update if anyone is watching what is happening here to my knowledge of my GGF time in the RMLI and his time in Turkey!

Horatio2 has enlightened me to my grandads medals and narrowed my "paper chase" down quite a bit.

I rang a Lady at FAAM to ask if I could have a copy of Trevors papers. She found him as quick as I could pour the milk on my tea, which I almost spilt at her rapid response!! "Oh,I have found him", about 2 milliseconds after I said his name!!??

I would really like to put my three pictures of him on this website. I dont know how to get them on here, can someone post them up?

One more question, He was Ply16992, so how come he was in Deal Btn?? Why not Plymouth Btn?

M

[horatio2]

Deal Battalion drew its complement from all three RMLI Divisions. The obvious problem was that they needed to form four RMLI battalions for the RM Brigade but only had three RMLI divisions to draw on. Right at the start of the war the fourth battalion was formed by the RMA, to be replaced by Deal Battalion.

[ellasian]

Ah! thank you again horatio2.

[ellasian]

Update

I have his service record from NA.

I also have his FAAM records.

No mention of medals. No mention of anything other than being in Deal Btn for some of the time. No mention of what Coy he was allocated to at Galipolli or any detail.

There is lots of info on him, his referees and some on training.

He was invalidid after a spell in Bermuda with "Otitis Media" = inner ear problems, ear ache 8>)

He was given EA (extended absent??) and GCA (Good Conduct Absent??) after the Dardanelles.

In 1916 he got a VG in Naval Gunnery and spent some time on HMS Resolution, probably because he learnt to fire the Big Un's and could swim??

I think, he had an OK war.........?

Horatio2, would you like copies of everything?? I'm happy to pass them on to anyone who is interested.

M

[horatio2]

EA = Efficiency Allowance. "GCA" is probably GSA = Good Shooting Allowance. No copies for me, thank you, but I am pleased you have obtained some good information.

[ellasian]

Ooops yes GSA

Is that "the mad minute" thing? (I used to have a self loading rifle, my wife could put "two taps" on every target on g range in Brecon in horizontal rain easily-woman snipers eh!)

Effecient Allowance? whats all that about then, sounds like the rubbish I hear at work

I also found out his dad William Henry (1854ish-1917) died while he was "away"-change to NOK.

Thanks H2 I know a lot more about the fellow now.

We are planting some Daffodill bulbs on his unmarked grave tomorrow. My daughters are quite excited to pay a little tribute to him.

best wishes to all who have helped.

M

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Pictures of His Majesty's Ship Resolution, I'd say her guns were big = 15 inches! Roughly 375mm; her secondary armament was 6 inches (150 mm).

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/resolution.htm

[ellasian]

Thanks, two of the pictures were only taken a year after Trevor was on her.

15 inch guns, no wonder the poor B**g*r had problems with his ears, bet he wished he hadn't done a Naval Gunnery course in 1916! Only problem would have been, he would have come back from leave and gone to the Western Front rather than Bermuda !!

Deaf was preferable to death I suppose

I can see you "hold a torch" for the Marines from your user name, do you want a copy of his papers?

thanks again MB

ps Trevor has Daff's on his grave now. My dad and I are going to make a nice Oak cross with brass plaque to follow.

[ellasian]

and here is a picture of Ply 16992 (arrowed red) with other gentlemen, probably at Malabar RMB Bermuda.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34443863@N08/3198522127/

Anyone recognise someone?

MB

[ellasian]

Sorry about the poor quality of this next photo, it's a photo of a photo.

It shows Ply16992 on the left with another soldier who we now believe to be a brother of his or more probable a nephew. The other soldiers hat has been "painted in" as the picture was damaged.

Does anyone else think the guy sitting looks a little un-easy?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34443863@N08/3203618990/

MB

[John Morcombe]

I have a copy of the original list of 1st RM Battn. Leave Party, departing Mudros aboard HMT "Olympic" 26/2/16 to UK Leave, which has him in 1st RM 'D' Company.

'D' & 'C'' Companies of 1st RM were made up from the old Deal Battn.

He was one of ony 100 Marines from 1RM to make it through Gallipoli from start to finish without recorded wounds or sickness to qualify for the 1st Other Ranks leave party. Val Littlewood was also there, in the Grenade Company of 1st RM (late Deal Battn.). The list is handwritten & held at the RM Museum Eastney.