50th (Northumbrian) Division

[Landsturm]

Does anyone have a pic of 50th (Northumbrian) Divisional insignia?

[AndrewThornton]

The cloth insignia worn by 50th Division was introduced sometime in late 1916 - photographs taken of soldiers of this formation during 1915 and early 1916 show no insignia being worn.

The information that I have on the complete insignia worn by units of this Division is fragmentory.

The infantry of the Division wore cloth patches on the upper arms in various colours. The shape of the patches was as follows:

149th (Northumberland Fusiliers) Brigade - horizontal rectangle

150th (York and Durham) Brigade - square

151st (Durham Light Infantry) Brigade - diamond

The size of the patches worn by 151st Brigade was noticably large and covered most of the upper arm.

As for the colours worn by particular units, these are examples that I have information on:

1/5th Durham Light Infantry - Blue Square

1/6th Durham Light Infantry - Red Diamond

1/9th Durham Light Infantry - Green Diamond - also worn on front of helmet covers

151st Brigade Light Trench Mortar Battery - Red over Blue Diamond with Blue Grenade badge sewn in the centre.

50th Battalion Machine Gun Corps - Yellow over Green Circle

I do not know if these patches continued to be worn when the Division was reconstituted during the Summer of 1918 with units drawn mainly from Salonika.

[Clive Harris]

The divisional insignia shown on vehicles and billets is shown below, I can find no reference to them wearing it uniforms however

[roger]

I hope no one minds me dragging this subject up again but I am planning to paint a model figure to represent a Private of my local Territorial infantry battalion the 1 /4 Yorkshire Regiment

I’ve had it in my mind to do this figure for sometime now and have finally took the plunge and purchased the Figure. When I’ve completed my present project work will begin but I’m missing some essential information.

Thanks to Andrew Thornton’s research shown above and the information contained in the books by Michael Chappell it would seem logical that as the second battalion of the 150th brigade they would’ve worn a red square patch

Good theory (unless anyone knows different)

But…

Is there any evidence of it actually being worn?

If so was it worn on the left, right or both sleeves?

What size was it? This Division are known for wearing large patches.

And finally, are you there Andrew?

Roger.

[AndrewThornton]

I am here Roger!!

Based on a photo of a chap from 1/5th DLI in one of Peter Liddle's books (The Soldier's War), the patches worn by 150th Brigade did not seem particularly large, when compared by those worn in 151st Brigade which nearly covered the whole upper arm.

The 1/5th DLI photo has the man wearing the insignia on both upper arms, and it appears to have been around 3 inches square.

Unfortunately, I haven't yet come across the sequence of colours worn by the brigades other than the isolated examples that I have already noted. The theory about 1/4th Yorkshires would make sense, but if the junior battalion of 150th Brigade wore blue (1/5th DLI), the 1/9th DLI in 151st Brigade wore green (their battalion concert party was even called the Green Diamonds when they served with 50th Division), and they were technically the "junior" battalion once 1/5th Borders joined the brigade. As yet I don't have any information to clear this up.

[roger]

Thanks very much Andrew, I knew I could rely on you

Looks like the way ahead for the model is to put square patches on both sleeves. Paint them red and be prepared to re-paint should any information to the contary emerge.

Perhaps a visit to Richmond to The Green Howards museum to see if they can shed any light on the matter might be an idea.

Changing the subject slightly, would you mind if I copied your sig. and sent it to a lady I am corresponding with? Her Grandmothers brother was killed while serving in 1/6 South Staffordshire Regiment, KIA Sunday 29 September 1918. Age 19. She would find it very interesting.

Thanks again,

Roger.

[GavinH]

Andrew,

I hope you don't mind me asking, but do you have any additional information on the yellow shield and yellow triangle patches, which I believe were worn by the 26th and the 32nd Battalion, Royal Fusiliers, as part of the 41st Division. Do you happen to know of any photos of these patches being worn. Many thanks.

Gavin

[P.B.]

I thought I'd add this photograph, which shows a surviving tunic displayed in the Durham Light Infantry Museum. It was worn by Lt Col Roland Bradford VC MC when he commanded 9/DLI. The quality of the photo isn't great, but you can see the large diamond battle patch on the top of the sleeve. Interestingly, when you see this tunic "in the flesh" the green colour of the battle patch has faded to an almost blue shade.

Hope this is of some interest,

Paul.

[roger]

Hope this is of some interest,

Paul.

It certainly is Paul. thanks for posting it. As I mentioned in the thread about Lt. Col E Vaux, DLI I'm re-reading the Div history of 50th Div.

Cheers,

Roger.

[AndrewThornton]

Andrew,

I hope you don't mind me asking, but do you have any additional information on the yellow shield and yellow triangle patches, which I believe were worn by the 26th and the 32nd Battalion, Royal Fusiliers, as part of the 41st Division. Do you happen to know of any photos of these patches being worn. Many thanks.

Gavin

Gavin

I am afraid I haven't seen any photos myself, but someone amongst us might have a photo in their collection.

Roger

Drop me a line off forum.

P.B.

What a fantastic photo! I remember when I did my work experience at school at the DLI Museum when I lived in Washington and it was a fantastic place. Stephen Shannon let me look at the war diaries and photo albums when I was twiddling my thumbs, so he is partly responsible for me liking to do my research into such things.

[GavinH]

Andrew,

Thanks for your reply. I'll try listing it as a new post.

regards

Gavin