Marc Thompson Posted 13 November , 2008 Share Posted 13 November , 2008 I am undertaking some research into the fate of five men buried at Dud Corner Cemetery, Loos. They were all killed on 29th July 1917, members of "R.D." Trench Mortar Battery. R.D. in this context I take to mean Reserve Division. The five are: 62606 Gunner Albert ETWELL 127233 Gunner George Robert ROBINSON 318 Gunner W. ROBINSON 130225 Acting Bombardier Frederick SPOONER 136153 Gunner J. SWALES Frederick Spooner above, from East Ashling, near Chichester was one of four brothers who lost their lives in the Great War. Can any Royal Field Artillery experts on the forum provide some further information or clues on the Reserve Division Trench Mortar Battery? I am particularly anxious to locate a War Diary, if one exists, at the National Archives but have so far drawn a blank in the catalogue index. I would really like to determine what happened to Frederick Spooner and the other 4 men on this date. CWGC have advised that the remains of all 5 men from the R.D. T.M.B. killed on 29th July 1917 were recovered in July 1919 from a battlefield location just north-west of Loos. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pw643 Posted 14 November , 2008 Share Posted 14 November , 2008 Marc I have all your men on my data base but unfortunately no additional info of use for you. The RD brought it back to my memory as I first assumed also that it was Reserve Division. Further searching for these men and the RD TMB have also been fruitless. These are the only 5 men I have so far on my database which is a small amount compaired to other TMB's. Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Thompson Posted 16 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 November , 2008 Paul, Many thanks for the response. It's good to know that I am not alone in struggling to find anything out about the Reserve Division TMB. Some further digging into records at TNA is in order. I'll let you know if I unearth anything of interest. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pw643 Posted 17 November , 2008 Share Posted 17 November , 2008 Marc Would be great, I will do likewise. Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pw643 Posted 17 November , 2008 Share Posted 17 November , 2008 33ROGERS, JOHN, J 39WELLIN , G 43PUNT , W J Marc I have these three although not TMB they are listed on CWGC as Ammo Column Reserve Div. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjjobson Posted 17 November , 2008 Share Posted 17 November , 2008 Good luck with the research guys, although I don't hold out a lot of hope as the Regimental Researcher at Firepower the Royal Artillery museum was unable to find anythin concrete on the RD TMB. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Thompson Posted 15 July , 2009 Author Share Posted 15 July , 2009 Just bringing this thread to the fore again in case anyone can crack the mystery of the R.D. T.M.B.? Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 16 July , 2009 Share Posted 16 July , 2009 Hello Marc The only info I can give you is negative: it won't have been "Reserve Division" as none of the British or Imperial divisions were so described. The CWGC, and even the PRO, have occasionally been known to mis-interpret abbreviations when transcribing them. Are you sure it is not a mistake for RND - Royal Naval Division? Like virtually all other infantry divisions, this would have had three Medium TM Batts, manned by the RFA, and one Heavy TM Batt, manned by the RGA. A lot of men in these batteries had previously been in Div Ammunition Columns, which fits in with what Paul says. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Thompson Posted 16 July , 2009 Author Share Posted 16 July , 2009 Are you sure it is not a mistake for RND - Royal Naval Division? Thanks Ron. The RND TMB option is certainly an avenue worth investigating. The relevant war diary is WO95/3102 which I will take a look at next time I visit the NA. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deanjeanrobinson Posted 24 July , 2009 Share Posted 24 July , 2009 I am undertaking some research into the fate of five men buried at Dud Corner Cemetery, Loos. They were all killed on 29th July 1917, members of "R.D." Trench Mortar Battery. R.D. in this context I take to mean Reserve Division. The five are: 62606 Gunner Albert ETWELL 127233 Gunner George Robert ROBINSON 318 Gunner W. ROBINSON 130225 Acting Bombardier Frederick SPOONER 136153 Gunner J. SWALES Frederick Spooner above, from East Ashling, near Chichester was one of four brothers who lost their lives in the Great War. Can any Royal Field Artillery experts on the forum provide some further information or clues on the Reserve Division Trench Mortar Battery? I am particularly anxious to locate a War Diary, if one exists, at the National Archives but have so far drawn a blank in the catalogue index. I would really like to determine what happened to Frederick Spooner and the other 4 men on this date. CWGC have advised that the remains of all 5 men from the R.D. T.M.B. killed on 29th July 1917 were recovered in July 1919 from a battlefield location just north-west of Loos. Marc My fathers uncle was one of the men in this post, George Robert Robinson. I to am stuck and need information. I would be very grate full for any sort of help. Regards Dean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deanjeanrobinson Posted 28 July , 2009 Share Posted 28 July , 2009 Hi Marc could you contact me with any information regarding death of George Robinson who is listed in yor post. Email deanrobinson51@btinternet .com. Regards Dean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 28 July , 2009 Share Posted 28 July , 2009 Hello, Earlier in this thread there was mention of the possibility of finding a war diary. Some time ago I looked at the box containing the ward diaries of the TM batteries in the 18th Div. They shared a box with the div ammo column. It was intersting to find that the TM diaries were sparse and by no means continuous. The Div Ammo Col diaries were much more nearly complete. Of course the Div Ammo Cols were larger units that had existed at the start of the war, whereas the TM batteries were initally, at least, rather ad hoc. I doubt that they had sufficient staff time time available to regularly write up diaries and, possibly, the Div HQ RA would not be inclined to chase them. Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillgorilla Posted 31 January , 2015 Share Posted 31 January , 2015 Interested in this as Joe Swales was a friend of my great grandfathers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 1 February , 2015 Share Posted 1 February , 2015 There is quite a bit about Joseph Swales and how he and the others died here - http://south-ribble.co.uk/srmuseum/pages/ww1/ww1docs/swales_j.pdf A similar account regarding Albert Etwell can be found here - http://etwellancestry.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=53 Also, Williamson Robinson was actually L/318 and would have initially joined the 158th Accrington Howitzer Brigade in February 1915. All of the men seem to have joined the RFA at different places and different times. Private William Sutherland Murray of the 47th Bn. Canadian Infantry (Western Ontario Regt.) also died that day, possibly attached to the RFA, and lies in the same cemetery. The Reserve Divisional Artillery appears to have once been the Lahore Divisional Artillery which assisted the Canadians at Vimy Ridge. A Reserve Division Trench Mortar Battery is also mentioned in the CWGC details of this man, who died the previous month: VICKERS, CHARLES Rank: Gunner Service No: 135916 Date of Death: 21/06/1917 Age:26 Regiment/Service: Royal Field Artillery Heavy Trench Mortar Bty., Reserve Div. Grave Reference: IV. D. 17. Cemetery: LAPUGNOY MILITARY CEMETERY Additional Information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Vickers, of Glasgow; husband of Jessie Ross Vickers, of 9, Taylor St., Townhead, Glasgow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillgorilla Posted 1 February , 2015 Share Posted 1 February , 2015 Thank you, I see the info about Joe Swales when I started to have a look last night. My grandfather kept a picture of Joe and Ethel Swales, and they gave my great aunt who died before the Great war a tin money box. What really hits home about the effect of the war is a postcard that I have from Ethel to my great grandparents in the 1930s, stating how things would have been. I intend to visit his grave, as whilst not family, he plays a part in my life every time we open up the box of photos. To die from gas cannot have been nice, and for all them to die must have been awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 1 February , 2015 Share Posted 1 February , 2015 "RD" as an abbreviation can mean "Returned to Duty" which doesn't match the context in this case. It can also mean "Rear Details" which might fit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 4 February , 2015 Share Posted 4 February , 2015 The book 84th Battery, RFA War Diary 1914-1919 indicates that the Lahore Division was renamed the Reserve Division in late 1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 January , 2019 Share Posted 13 January , 2019 In reply to hillgorilla's post Feb 2015 I am the granddaughter of one of the men killed with Joseph Swales. I have visited Dud Corner Cemetery where they are buried twice and on the first occasion, on the 90th anniversary of their deaths, I took photographs of all 5 graves. Herewith the photo of Joseph's grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 13 January , 2019 Share Posted 13 January , 2019 Welcome to the Forum, Good to see the photo. Having looked at the Soldiers Effects Records on Ancestry it is certain that all these men were in the Reserve Division Trench Mortar Batteries. Two of them, at least, with "Z" Battery. 62606 Albert Etwell Z/Res TMB 127233 George Robert Robinson Res Division TMB L/318 Williamson Robinson R.D. TMB 130225 Frederick Spooner Res Division TMB 136153 Joseph Spooner Z/R.D. TMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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