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Remembered Today:

Medal card; service number and Arras re: John Stones of West Riding Re


clivep

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Hello,

I am new to the forums and would appreciate any possible clarification about the WW1 Medal Cards and Service Number which I have found for JOHN STONES. (I have not found his Service Record) .

The first Card records him as “John Stones. W[est] Rid[ing] R[egiment], Pte, [Reg No] 3/10699

Medal(s): Victory and British

Roll: 0/2/101/B3 page 306

Died: 5-5-15

The second Card records him as “J. Stoney, W[est] Rid[ing] R[egiment], Pte, [Reg No] 10699

Medal: 15, Star

Roll: 0/2/3B Page 417

Theatre of War: 1. France

Date of Entry: 8-5-15

Died: 3/5/17”

As can be seen the dates of death are different (as is the last letter of his surname) but the Regiment and main Service Number are the same.

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission and Civil Registration record him as John Stones and give his correct age and his death as 3rd May 1917. His death is shown on the Arras Memorial.

All 3 medals are with the family with the Star showing J. Stoney 10699 and the Victory and British Medals as J. Stones 3/10699.

I assume that because the 2 Medal Cards have the same main Service Number and Regiment that they are for the same soldier but would like to know:-

1. Am I likely to be correct in my assumption?

2. Was it common for there to be more than 1 medal card for the same soldier - I note from another message that it did happen?

3. Was the service number given to a soldier unique to that soldier across the whole army or was the number only unique within a particular regiment?

4. How can the different dates of death on the 2 Cards be explained?

5 Is the Duke of Wellington’s (West Riding Regimental) Museum likely to be able to assist with (more) details on John Stones or in clarifying the Cards?

6. John Stones was born and lived in Blackburn but he enlisted in Halifax in the above Regiment rather than in the East Lancs. - does anyone know if this was a common situation (ie. away from a soldiers home town regiment)?

Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.

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History of the Duke of Wellington’s Regiment 1st & 2nd Battalions, 1881 - 1923.

This book lists the battalions’ dead and includes:

10699 Pte. Stones, John 3.5.17

Tony.

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Hi Lancs/Yorks

Very interesting, I'm not an expert on MICs but I do know of instances where more than one card exists, BUT you may have 2 different soldier's medals. Regarding soldiers signing up away from home, that is very common indeed. Question, How were the medals obtained? Rec'd in the post or bought later. By the way welcome to the forum.You should soon get a more detailed answer.

Regards Barry

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Thanks to Tony and Barry for the information.

In answer to Barry's question the medals have always been in the family's possession - they were not bought.

I think the J. Stoney (Medal Card) and the John Stones (Commonwealth War Graves Commission, Civil Registration and Tony's information) who died 3rd May 1917 are one and the same. However, as Barry points out there could still be 2 soldiers - i.e the 1915 and the 1917 deaths - although the fact that the medals weren't bought and the regimental service numbers are the same on the 1917 and 1915 Medal Cards could still suggest 1 soldier. I just don't know especially in the absence of John Stones service record.

Hoping for any further help or advice.

Clive

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Hi and welcome to the forum, it is quite common to find two medal cards for the same person containing errors, conflicting dates etc. I think and I am no expert that the 3/ at the begining of the regimental number on one of the cards meant he was a special reservist, basically the 3rd Battallion Duke of Wellingtons West Riding Regiment. Here are details from SDGW. Hope it helps.

Cheers

Andy

Regiment, Corps etc

Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment)

Battalion/etc

2nd Battalion. Details

Surname

Stones

Christian Name

John

Initials

J

Born

Blackburn, Lancs

Enlisted

Halifax

Residence

Blackburn

Rank

PRIVATE

Number

10699

Died Date

03/05/1917

Died How

Killed in action

Theatre of War

France & Flanders

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There is no mention of any John Stoney in the History of the 1st & 2nd Battalion's list of deaths. Soldiers Died in the Great War for the West Riding Regiment also has no John Stoney in the 2nd Battalion.

The 3/ prefix you mention above usually means he has been moved over from the 3rd Battalion to the 2nd Battalion on the Western Front after the war started.

Tony.

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Ancestry have not yet got to the "S" in there digitising of the surviving burnt series of the War Records, by all accounts it should be later this year(I know its November), then there will be a great big rush from everybody thats waiting for that time.

So just hang on in there and join the rush at the off.

Welcome to the forum, I was forgetting my manners.

Cheers Roger.

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Thanks to all for the information- it looks as though they are one and the same person - looking forward to when "S" service records are online assuming mine are not in the "destroyed" batches.

Clive

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