psparks Posted 7 November , 2008 Share Posted 7 November , 2008 hi i have a death certificate of william pass age 23 killed in action 23 -10-1918 france & flanders, he was in the royal scots, lothian regiment formaly york and lancs, i have a photo who i always thought was william but on his cap theres a badge of the royal artillery. what i am trying to find out is would he have a badge for the royal artillery if he was in the royal scots or youk and lancs,i am confussed, can anyone please help thank you patricia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 7 November , 2008 Share Posted 7 November , 2008 Hi, Patricia. Welcome to the board. Sometimes men switched from one regiment to another, so it's possible that he was at one stage in the Royal Artillery and had his photo taken. Have you had a look at his Medal Index Card? They often show which regiments men were in. Edit Except that in this instance, it only shows Royal Scots on the MIC... I wonder if he had a second card, as you say he was also in the Yorks and Lancs. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psparks Posted 7 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2008 Hi, Patricia. Welcome to the board. Sometimes men switched from one regiment to another, so it's possible that he was at one stage in the Royal Artillery and had his photo taken. Have you had a look at his Medal Index Card? They often show which regiments men were in. Allie hi allie i am struggling a bit to know how to use this site ,hope i have posted a reply to you in the right place, thank you for your reply. i have found up to now william in royal scots 270586 formaly york and lancs 23390 and scots rifels 241019, so i see what you mean they did move a bit, thank you again patricia, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 7 November , 2008 Share Posted 7 November , 2008 Name: PASS, WILLIAM Initials: W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Royal Scots Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 23 Date of Death: 23/10/1918 Service No: 270586 Awards: M M Additional information: Son of Clara Pass, of 29, Colliers' Row, Park, Sheffield; husband of Elizabeth Pass, of 40, Copper St., Sheffield. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. C. 3. Cemetery: ROMERIES COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION I see that he was awarded the MM. I wonder if there are any clues in a citation for that? Otherwise, you may be looking at someone other than William in the photo. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 7 November , 2008 Share Posted 7 November , 2008 i have found up to now william in royal scots 270586 formaly york and lancs 23390 and scots rifels 241019, Ah, I see. Yes it has that on the Soldiers Died Great War CDrom. So there's possibly another MIC around. I'll have a looksee. Edit again Well, I can't find another MIC with those other service numbers. Are you able to post a scan of the photo? And also a close up of the hat badge in question? We may be able to see other clues to help narrow things down. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psparks Posted 7 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2008 Ah, I see. Yes it has that on the Soldiers Died Great War CDrom. So there's possibly another MIC around. I'll have a looksee. Allie hi allie thank you for all the info, it is very much appreciated, i am not good at all with all this war subject, so any help is welcome thank you patricia, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psparks Posted 7 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2008 Ah, I see. Yes it has that on the Soldiers Died Great War CDrom. So there's possibly another MIC around. I'll have a looksee. Edit again Well, I can't find another MIC with those other service numbers. Are you able to post a scan of the photo? And also a close up of the hat badge in question? We may be able to see other clues to help narrow things down. Allie allie i will see if i can send a photo but i hope you can wait as i dont know where to satart, i am hopless on this site , but i will try patricia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 7 November , 2008 Share Posted 7 November , 2008 Glad to help, Patricia. I think your next step would be to put up a copy of the photo, as we may be able to obtain more clues from the photo - e.g type of service jacket, wound stripes etc - which may help us rule out William as a possibility. If you are uncertain how to put the photo up, feel free to email it to me and I'lll upload it for you. I'll send a PM through the site wiht my email adddress. Also, if you live in the Sheffield area, you may be able to look at old newspapers at the library which could have something written about him when he died, and perhaps even a photograph you coudl compare. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psparks Posted 7 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2008 Glad to help, Patricia. I think your next step would be to put up a copy of the photo, as we may be able to obtain more clues from the photo - e.g type of service jacket, wound stripes etc - which may help us rule out William as a possibility. If you are uncertain how to put the photo up, feel free to email it to me and I'lll upload it for you. I'll send a PM through the site wiht my email adddress. Also, if you live in the Sheffield area, you may be able to look at old newspapers at the library which could have something written about him when he died, and perhaps even a photograph you coudl compare. Allie hi allie i have tryed to put the photo on but it keeps telling me i am not permitted to put it on, so i dont know why, i have made the photo a bit smaller although it is only small to start with but i still get the same message, i wish it was as easy as sending it like an e,mail. never mind. thank you patricia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 7 November , 2008 Share Posted 7 November , 2008 It's a long time since I was new on the forum so I can't be certain, but it may be that you are unable to upload pictures or something until you've reached a specific number of posts? Anyway, I hope you've recieved my email address. It doesn't matter if it's the bigger version of the photo - it's easier to see the details that way. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psparks Posted 7 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2008 It's a long time since I was new on the forum so I can't be certain, but it may be that you are unable to upload pictures or something until you've reached a specific number of posts? Anyway, I hope you've recieved my email address. It doesn't matter if it's the bigger version of the photo - it's easier to see the details that way. Allie hi allie where would i find your e,mail sorry about this i just cant seem to find my way around. patricia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 7 November , 2008 Share Posted 7 November , 2008 ... it may be that you are unable to upload pictures or something until you've reached a specific number of posts? Allie Allie - yes, I think you're right and once Patricia has made a few more posts, the restriction should disappear. I've done a quick search to see if I could find what the exact threshold is, but with no luck! HTH Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 7 November , 2008 Share Posted 7 November , 2008 From the Scottish National War Memorial, he has three entries, which cross references his service numbers, but no mention of Royal Artillery. VIEW Surname Firstname Service Number Date Death SNWM roll Rank 1 PASS William 23390 23/10/1918 SCOTTISH CASUALTIES EXTRACTED FROM ENGLISH REGIMENTS Pte 2 PASS William 241019 23/10/1918 THE CAMERONIANS (SCOTTISH RIFLES) Pte 3 PASS William 270586 23/10/1918 THE ROYAL SCOTS (LOTHIAN REGIMENT) Pte Surname PASS Firstname William Service Number 23390 Date Death 23/10/1918 Decoration M.M. Place of birth Sheffield Other latterly 270586 2nd Bn. The Royal Scots. SNWM roll SCOTTISH CASUALTIES EXTRACTED FROM ENGLISH REGIMENTS Rank Pte Theatre of death F.& F. Surname PASS Firstname William Service Number 241019 Date Death 23/10/1918 Decoration M.M. Place of birth Sheffield Other latterly 270586 2nd Bn. The Royal Scots. SNWM roll THE CAMERONIANS (SCOTTISH RIFLES) Rank Pte Theatre of death F.& F. Surname PASS Firstname William Service Number 270586 Date Death 23/10/1918 Decoration M.M. Place of birth Sheffield Other 2nd Bn. formerly 23390 York & Lancs. Regt., 241019 Scot. Rif. SNWM roll THE ROYAL SCOTS (LOTHIAN REGIMENT) Rank Pte Theatre of death F.& F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psparks Posted 7 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2008 From the Scottish National War Memorial, he has three entries, which cross references his service numbers, but no mention of Royal Artillery. VIEW Surname Firstname Service Number Date Death SNWM roll Rank 1 PASS William 23390 23/10/1918 SCOTTISH CASUALTIES EXTRACTED FROM ENGLISH REGIMENTS Pte 2 PASS William 241019 23/10/1918 THE CAMERONIANS (SCOTTISH RIFLES) Pte 3 PASS William 270586 23/10/1918 THE ROYAL SCOTS (LOTHIAN REGIMENT) Pte Surname PASS Firstname William Service Number 23390 Date Death 23/10/1918 hi david thank you very much for your help. i wouldnt know where to find all this information, so it is all very much appreciated thank you again patricia, Decoration M.M. Place of birth Sheffield Other latterly 270586 2nd Bn. The Royal Scots. SNWM roll SCOTTISH CASUALTIES EXTRACTED FROM ENGLISH REGIMENTS Rank Pte Theatre of death F.& F. Surname PASS Firstname William Service Number 241019 Date Death 23/10/1918 Decoration M.M. Place of birth Sheffield Other latterly 270586 2nd Bn. The Royal Scots. SNWM roll THE CAMERONIANS (SCOTTISH RIFLES) Rank Pte Theatre of death F.& F. Surname PASS Firstname William Service Number 270586 Date Death 23/10/1918 Decoration M.M. Place of birth Sheffield Other 2nd Bn. formerly 23390 York & Lancs. Regt., 241019 Scot. Rif. SNWM roll THE ROYAL SCOTS (LOTHIAN REGIMENT) Rank Pte Theatre of death F.& F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 7 November , 2008 Share Posted 7 November , 2008 Patricia William's Military Medal award was listed in the London Gazette (#30797, 16 July 1918). Unfortunately the MM doesn't come with a citation in the Gazette (unlike other awards) to say why and how it was earned, local newspapers (and sometimes Battalion War Diaries) are often the best source for such information. 270586 Pte. W. Pass, R. Scots (Sheffield). A link to the page in the Gazette is Here Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psparks Posted 7 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2008 Patricia William's Military Medal award was listed in the London Gazette (#30797, 16 July 1918). Unfortunately the MM doesn't come with a citation in the Gazette (unlike other awards) to say why and how it was earned, local newspapers (and sometimes Battalion War Diaries) are often the best source for such information. 270586 Pte. W. Pass, R. Scots (Sheffield). A link to the page in the Gazette is Here Regards Steve hi steve thank you very much,i appreciate your help patricia, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 7 November , 2008 Share Posted 7 November , 2008 Here's the photo Patricia wanted uploading: As well as the hat badge she thinks it might be: Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psparks Posted 7 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2008 hi ally thank you very much for putting the photo on, you have done a great job, i appreciate all your help and advice, thank you again patricia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 9 November , 2008 Share Posted 9 November , 2008 Bumping this - can anyone be of further help? Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 9 November , 2008 Share Posted 9 November , 2008 Bumping this - can anyone be of further help? Allie The badge certainly looks like Royal Artillery to me and the bandolier etc would also support that. The cap badge is definitely none of York & Lancs, Cameronians/Scottish Rifles nor Royal Scots. Unless we can get some evidence of service in the RA, we must conclude that the photo is not of the William Pass on the MIC. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psparks Posted 9 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2008 The badge certainly looks like Royal Artillery to me and the bandolier etc would also support that. The cap badge is definitely none of York & Lancs, Cameronians/Scottish Rifles nor Royal Scots. Unless we can get some evidence of service in the RA, we must conclude that the photo is not of the William Pass on the MIC. Cheers, Mark hi thank you all very much for trying to help, i just cant think who this photo can be of, i only ever heard of william from my grandma, as he was her brother, and the photo was from her when she died, there is always a mystery isnt there, thank you again patricia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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