Pte William Owen - seeking any additional info

[siajam]

Hi, I have come across the name of a soldier in a local churchyard, although he is not listed on the village war memorial. I'm hoping someone may be able to provide some additional information.

Perhaps someone with better knowledge of the numbering system than me can garner some clues from his service numbers? (e.g. which battalions/sections/etc)

Here is all I have been able to establish so far...

Pte. William Owen 21399 Royal Welsh Fusiliers.

attached to Chinese Labour Corps as Sgt, 580213.

died 11/4/1921, buried in churchyard of St Peris church, Llanberis, Gwynedd.

Thank you.

[Hywyn]

Sgt Owen was a 14th Battalion man from 28 Margaret Street, Caernarfon. He went out to France with that Battalion (as part of the 38th Welsh Division) in December 1915.

He was wounded in the right hand during the battle of Mametz Wood on the Somme in 1916.

Intriguingly the newspaper report stating this, dated 27/7/1916, also states that he had served elsewhere than France. I've not yer come across his obituary but haven't looked much at the 1921 papers yet. I can't find my notes from the parish registers to see why a Caernarfon man is at Nant but will have another look.

He is not on the Llanberis Memorial and the Caernarfon one has two (both are W H Owen) one of which had a brother called Hugh also a casualty. I have identified these brothers and there are 3 possibles for the remaining W H Owen.

Insofar as the Labour Corps is concerned it is quite feasible that he was transferred to them after recovering from wounds (this happened to my grandfather).

Hywyn

[siajam]

Brilliant, that's more info than I'd dreamed of! I'll carry on with those leads, and see what else I can find out.

Thanks so much.

[Hywyn]

Croeso

If you find more can you let me know?

I note you say local churchyard. I have been looking at Arfon men in WW1 for some years now with bits and bobs on thousands (with a lot more to do though) and started with Deiniolen expanding to Llanberis, Llanrug etc etc until now covering most of the area.

PM me should you have any queries within this area that you feel I may help with.

Hywyn

[Hywyn]

Have now found my notes.

The parish register gives his address as Brynseiont Hospital, Caernarfon aged 42. I think, but can't be sure, that it was a TB hospital at the time.

THE GFH Society Monumental Inscription book gives William R Owen, 26 Margaret Street, Caernarfon aged 43. His wife Mary 19/6/1921 aged 42. Nothing to indicate it's a CWGC stone.

My notes further state 'to do' is look up the papers and look up Mary in the register for a 'local' clue.

I have a feeling that I may have tried to pin him to Llanberis in the Census' but failed to positively do so.

Is your source CWGC or some other one?

hywyn

Hywyn

[siajam]

Thanks for all your help Hywyn,

As far as the internet goes, I have only managed to find this man mentioned on 3 (excluding this forum!), which are CWGC, Roll of Honour (Caernarfon/Llanberis) and a pdf file about the CLC by Brian Fawcett (I'm not sure if I can post the link here - I don't want to infringe any copyrights, but I guess I could PM you the details if you wish).

I said 'local' churchyard, because Llanberis is fairly local when I'm working in Caernarfon!

I'm really hoping I can get an hour or two in the Gwynedd archives today, and if I come up with anything (I've particularly got my fingers crossed for a photo), I'll let you know.

Siaron

[Hywyn]

No problem Siaron.

I'll look up the Brian Fawcett site. I see it comes up tops in a search for that unit. Not sure if Brian is on this Forum but there certainly are some knowledgable Labour Corps people here.

There would be no problem linking to a website. They're in the public domain.

I referred to the newspaper report stating that he had served 'elsewhere than France' and come to the conclusion that this will undoubtedly be pre war service. I base this on the fact that his number falls within the block allocated to the 14th when they were raised in 1914 which shows he was an early recruit into Kitcheners Army. Had he been a recent ex army then surely he would be in the Reserves and been mobilised that way so possibly he's a Boer War (or China) man. He is not on the list of Caernarfon men in the Boer War but there again if he is a Llanberis man he wouldn't be.

I have covered most of the 1914 and 1915 papers (where there tends to be a lot of photos before they started charging) and see that I have nothing marked for him.There again some of the issues were Lleyn editions so it's not a cetainty that I have all the info. It's also intriguing why he is not on the memorials so I will be interested to learn of what you may dig up at the Archives.

I've now seen some of your other posts and was particularly interested in the RGA man (William Thomas Williams) I have about six William Williams (in RGA that is, dozens and dozens otherwise!!) some of whom I have positively identified. Majority of local RGA men are Welsh (Carnarvon) RGA TF (which I am studying) men but some did move to other units. One problem is is that their TF service number would not necessarily show on the medal cards if they had gone overseas with their 'new' unit. Do you have an address or a town/village for yours that you can share?

Cofion

hywyn

[siajam]

'My' William Thomas Williams was from Llanllechid, near Bethesda. He had a brother, Robert, also a bombadier but in the RFA, who was killed 16/10/1916. Their parents lived at Tyddyn Uchaf, Llanllechid.

Robert's death is reported in the newspapers Yr Herald Cymraeg 19/12/1916 and the Aberdare Leader 9/12/1916 (his wife and child lived in Tongwynlais after his death, and his sister, Mrs Wm. Hughes, lived at 27 Eva Street.

There's not much else about WT Williams himself, but maybe that will help you sort out which of the six he might be.

cofion

Siaron

[Hywyn]

Certainly has Siaron. He is on a (newspaper) list dated 2/12/1914 of men having enlisted since 12/10/1914 and both he and his brother appear in a huge list (in Chaple/Church order)of Llanllechid/Llandegai men who served. Your info re Robert has helped me inasmuch as it confirms that the CWGC/SDGW Robert was the Tyddyn Uchaf Robert.

Diolch

Hywyn

ON

I have the SDGW disc should you want lookups. Just PM me.

[siajam]

I've just come back from the archives (it was lunchtime - they kicked me out!). Time flies in there. Anyway, I did find the announcement of William Owen's death in Yr Herald Cymraeg 19/4/21. The only new information was that he was a warden at the jail before being admitted to the sanitorium, his wife was also in the sanitorium (now seems likely they both had TB), and they had 4 children (unfortunately no names/ages given). No pictures so far, and although one of him in uniform seems unlikely, there may be a something from the jail lead. When I get the chance, I'll check that out.

Glad the info on the Williams brothers helped.

[Hywyn]

Diolch Siaron

Maybe something will turn up when Ancestry get round to O in the Service records.

Incidentally the Chapel that the Williams brothers attended (according to the list) was Capel Peniel MC, Llanllechid.

Hywyn