john_g_4472 Posted 4 November , 2008 Share Posted 4 November , 2008 This photograph has, sadly, faded almost entirely away. I have tweaked it in Photoshop, with the results seen here. The long coat worn by these men - possibly engaged in the campaign in Salonika - seems to have a large sheepskin or fur collar, and is closed by three or four leather (?) tabs. Is it a standard issue please? John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g_4472 Posted 4 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 4 November , 2008 Here is another view of the coat's collar. Is this the badge is of the ASC please? John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 4 November , 2008 Share Posted 4 November , 2008 Yes to ASC The coats seem very similar to those issued to the drivers of London buses except they are not white. Probably the miltary borrowing from good commerical practice S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 4 November , 2008 Share Posted 4 November , 2008 Hello John Waterproof coats, and cold-weather coats of sheepskin or goatskin, or leather long coats, were often issued to vehicle drivers or motor-cyclists, whose duties would not allow them to take much shelter from the elements. The custom pre-dates the war. In wartime, such coats were often obtained by local purchase, or improvised by suitably-skilled Army tailors. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 4 November , 2008 Share Posted 4 November , 2008 Actually, there was an issue 'MT Coat'. I don't have the details on the same - I'm sure Joe has - but I do have one. It has been packed back away in the loft after showing it off to Krithia on Monday; but I'll dig it out again and take some pictures soon. My example has a serge collar, and part of our discussion revolved around whether the sheepskin collar was a pattern or acceptable variant or a button-on addition, a la the fur ones on Sidcot suits. The closures are metal hook and eye type, similar to those that used to be on FDNY coats or arctic gear designed by Shackleton for Russia in 1919. There is a much better photo of one being worn in Osprey's British Air Forces 1914-18 Vol. 1 P. 17. Best wishes, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krithia Posted 4 November , 2008 Share Posted 4 November , 2008 In this weather your MT Coat is far more desirable than my KD Shorts. I am sure I have seen an equipment issue listing that mentions this coat, maybe in the 1914 Clothing Regs (sorry I have mislaid my copy so cannot check tonight). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 4 November , 2008 Share Posted 4 November , 2008 Ahem: I'll have you know that I think my MT Coat is more desirable than your KD shorts whatever the weather! Pix tomorrow with any luck, not least as I'm overdue on some others too. GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 5 November , 2008 Share Posted 5 November , 2008 John, They are wearing "Coats Sheepskin lined", standard issue for drivers of Lorries, cars and Long rein Horse transport. Issued to these men in lieu of Great coats. Never handled an original to know if the sheepskin was removable or not and it does not say either way in any of the descriptive documents I have. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g_4472 Posted 5 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 5 November , 2008 Many thanks for these most interesting posts. The men would certainly need warm coats driving those open-cab lorries. The photographs were indeed taken during the Salonika campaign, by the way - amongst the group of very faded photographs I have found one shown the ruins of Salonika after the fire. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 10 November , 2008 Share Posted 10 November , 2008 Herewith images of what appears to be an MT coat, differing from Joe's description in that it is not sheepskin lined - or collared. This example is RAF and named, with a six-figure service number. The collar is of heavy wool serge, a la the greatcoat. The lining is a heavy, quilted - almost Kapok - material, with further serge panels let in toward the bottom. The coat itself is made of a very heavy duck/ canvas. It is not rubberised, but appears to be 'true' Macintosh where the rubber is inside a sandwich of fabric. Best wishes, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 10 November , 2008 Share Posted 10 November , 2008 And more: the lining, the mark and pocket detail. GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 10 November , 2008 Share Posted 10 November , 2008 Hello all, I think the coat GT has illustrated may be a little later than WW1 vintage. These were still on issue at the start of WW2 and were used by the Northwest Expeditionary Force in Norway in 1940. The early examples still had the fleece lining and the WW1 type hooks to close the coat. Later they were manufactured with a quilted kapok lining still with the hook closure. Later still both buttons and toggles were used on these coats. They were known by that time as Coats, Tropal. They were in use with the army well into the '50s. I suspect the coat illustrated is one of the interim types that has had a hard life. It does look like it's been through two world wars though! Regards Tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 10 November , 2008 Share Posted 10 November , 2008 Here are a few images of these coats in use Note the sheepskin gloves issued with the coats. TM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 10 November , 2008 Share Posted 10 November , 2008 Forgot to mention..... also note the extra slash pocket each side of the chest in the photos. Having looked again they all have these slash pockets in the chest. RAMC using the coats with an Indian mate late 1914 early 1915 by the looks of it. TM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 11 November , 2008 Share Posted 11 November , 2008 Thanks TM - I'm (more-or-less) equally cheered and dismayed. Moved by your comments, I had a good rummage around and, as you say, these coats seem particularly associated with the Norwegian campaign of 1940. At least - having the chance to look at the number again in conjunction with some OMRS materials recently received - it seems the number is consistent with an RAF enlistment, Uxbridge, September 1939. Shame not WWI, but not a complete write-off. Knowledge increased, collection decreased. For all that, it'd be nice if Joe has pattern numbers/ changes at his disposal for sharing. Best wishes, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g_4472 Posted 11 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2008 GT, Tocemma, most informative posts, many thanks. Re the group photo in front of the Tilling Stevens, I dare say that you have noticed too the splendid pair of jackboots worn by the chap on the left? John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 11 November , 2008 Share Posted 11 November , 2008 At least - having the chance to look at the number again in conjunction with some OMRS materials recently received - it seems the number is consistent with an RAF enlistment, Uxbridge, September 1939. Shame not WWI, but not a complete write-off. Knowledge increased, collection decreased. Give you £5 for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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