CAMERON HIGLANDERS REG NO. 33773 SEQUENCE

[Guest]

Hi Pals

I am hoping a Cameron Highlanders expert may be able to assist in identifying my Grandfather-in-Laws Battalion his regimental number was 33773 (National Archives MIC)

He originally joined West Yorks after 1915 (underage as born 1901?) regimental number of 270185 has been kindly identified as 1/6 or 2/6 West Yorks.

I have no details how or when he was transferred to the Cameron Highlanders (suggestions in family hint at him being taken prisoner and escaping with no suggestions of him being wounded or sick at any point - could be 'Chinese whispers').

Sadly he has now passed away so I am unable to glean any info directly from him. Grateful again for any assistance.

Regards

Barry

[Tom A McCluskey]

Barry,

For the West Yorkshire Regiment, under TF (Territorial Force) re-numbering 27**** is a 7th Bn West Yorkshire Regiment number.

The Camerons' numbers fell in line with the rest of the Highland Regiments, and I don't reckon that there is a guarantee of battalion by Regimental number. His number is too large to be a regular soldier or a pre-renumbered TF one. I have a hunch that there is an 'S/' prefix missing from his number. The other possibility, but I would have thought less likely, is that he is a Special Reserve, which whould mean that there is a virgule (/) missing between the first 3 and the second 3.

S/33773 likely

or

3/3773 less likely

From the picture below, I hope you can see what I mean by the prefixes and re-numbering:

1556 Donald MacDonald - This number could be a Regular or TF (having checked, in this case TF)

3/5154 Donald MacDonald - Special Reserve (3/)

225439 Donald MacDonald - 10 Camerons TF, after re-numbering (note the 6-figure number)

S/27375 Donald MacDonald - Duration of the War Engagement (S/), in this case serving with the 7th (New Army)

Hope this helps

Aye

Tom McC

[Guest]

Barry,

For the West Yorkshire Regiment, under TF (Territorial Force) re-numbering 27**** is a 7th Bn West Yorkshire Regiment number.

The Camerons' numbers fell in line with the rest of the Highland Regiments, and I don't reckon that there is a guarantee of battalion by Regimental number. His number is too large to be a regular soldier or a pre-renumbered TF one. I have a hunch that there is an 'S/' prefix missing from his number. The other possibility, but I would have thought less likely, is that he is a Special Reserve, which whould mean that there is a virgule (/) missing between the first 3 and the second 3.

S/33773 likely

or

3/3773 less likely

From the picture below, I hope you can see what I mean by the prefixes and re-numbering:

1556 Donald MacDonald - This number could be a Regular or TF (having checked, in this case TF)

3/5154 Donald MacDonald - Special Reserve (3/)

225439 Donald MacDonald - 10 Camerons TF, after re-numbering (note the 6-figure number)

S/27375 Donald MacDonald - Duration of the War Engagement (S/), in this case serving with the 7th (New Army)

Hope this helps

Aye

Tom McC

Tom

Thanks for the prompt and comprehensive reply, I had no appreciation the significance of the format of the regimental numbers. The guide was most useful.

As you suggest the S suffix seems most likely. I have learned of the additional details held in the Medal Rolls at NA so I hope that will source will provide more details for me to exploit.

Could you advise if there will be any indication in 7 BTN West Yorks records to indicate why Walter Reeve was 'discharged'/'transferred' to Camerons?

Many thanks

Barry

[PPCLI]

Hi Barry,

I don't have the medal roll entry but just to say that S/33773 was most probably issued post-war:

24.04.18 - S/32426

04.07.18 - S/33215

05.07.18 - S/33282

26.07.18 - S/33328

19.02.19 - S/33721

??????? - S/33773

12.06.19 - S/34447

If you check the casualties for the Camerons, there is only a handful of men (4 to be precise) with numbers in the S/33*** range, two with the 1st Battalion (S/33041 & S/33388) died Oct and Nov 1918 on the Western Front and two with the 3rd Battalion (S/33144 & S/33220), one drowned when the RMS Leinster, the Irish mail boat, was torpedoed and sunk in the Irish Sea on 10th October 1918 and the other died at home in Scotland in Nov 1918. This would indicate that very few of these men served in a battle zone at the end of the war. You will also note that the numbers of these four men fit with the issue dates listed above.

I suggest that your grandfather-in-law was transferred to the Camerons in late February or March 1919.

Cheers,

Stuart

[Muerrisch]

Am I to understand that the single SR battalion of this regiment had recruited as special reservists up to 33xxx numbers?!

Or is something else going on?

Even if a SR battalion continued the old Militia series, the numbers can hardly get to about 10xxx by 1914, after which recruiting to the SR as such became moribund .... there was just no need.

So, what went on?

Most likely is that, as 3rd battalions became huge depots, all soldiers posted thereto got a 3/ number, but that was certainly not general practice in the army as a whole.

[PPCLI]

Or is something else going on?

Something else is going on. As I'm sure you know, the highland 'S' (not 3/) series numbers were for wartime enlistments, with S/33*** numbers issued from summer 1918. I take it that the 3rd Battalion men mentioned above were men still undergoing training at the regimental depot before their overseas posting.

Stuart

[Muerrisch]

thank you: I glazed over!

Read the Ss as 3s!

[Guest]

Stuart and Grumpy....thanks for you information.

As a novice I am still struggling to get my head around Reserve & Special Reserve formations.

If I assume Walter Reeve's original unit was 2/7th West Yorks (Prince of Wales's Own) - this Battalion was reduced to cadre strength in Jun 1918. Is it likely soldiers could have been dispersed to other regiments ie Camerons?

Another conclusion I am considering is that there may be some truth in the family hint at Walter being taken prisoner (not sure if POW or simply captured and escaped). If he was released from a POW camp could he then have been allocated to a regiment such as the Camerons post 1918, on release from prison for administration purposes (I think I am clutching at straws now!).

As the MIC states the BWM and VM have been awarded to Walter so I have to assume he served in an active service Battalion such as 2/7th TF Battalion West Yorks.

Many thanks to everyone for their continued support.

Barry

[Black Watch]

If I assume Walter Reeve's original unit was 2/7th West Yorks (Prince of Wales's Own) - this Battalion was reduced to cadre strength in Jun 1918. Is it likely soldiers could have been dispersed to other regiments ie Camerons?

Barry

The men not retained in the cadre would almost certainly have been transferred to another unit(s). Possibly other men with similar West Yorks numbers ie 270185 would have been transferred to the same unit.

Neil

[Tom A McCluskey]

Barry,

Some of these men, especially late enlistees, would be kept on in the British Army of the Rhine.

Aye

Tom McC

[Guest]

Tom, Stuart, Grumpy and Neil

Again many thanks for your guidance it now gives me other options to pursue 'the pilot responsible for the incendiary device in WW2 which destroyed the bulk of the WW1 records as a lot to answer for'......maybe he was just doing his job and it is the Archivist who thought it fit to leave the records in London whom I should be frustrated with!

Thanks again

Barry

PO

HMS AGRIPPA