John Bernard Shrive

[SteveE]

John Bernard Shrive was Killed in Action at Nyangao on this day in 1917, does anybody know if he is mentioned in any Northampton or Peterborough newspapers?

SHRIVE, JOHN BERNARD

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Royal Fusiliers

Unit Text: 25th Bn.

Age: 23

Date of Death: 18/10/1917

Service No: 42209

Additional information: Son of Thomas William and Jane Shrive, of West St., Kings Cliffe, Peterborough, England.

Grave/Memorial Reference: Coll. grave 6. G. 2-11.

Cemetery: DAR ES SALAAM WAR CEMETERY

SDGW states born Tarsoe, Northants and enlisted Peterborough.

Many thanks in advance.

Steve

[Stebie9173]

King's Cliffe is likely to be Peterborough rather than Northampton. I'll have a look for him next time I'm at the bomb site library.

The Peterborough Roll of Honour drawn up when the Memorial Hospital was built in the 20s lists him as "Shrive, John Bernard, Westwood Street, Peterborough, 42209, Private, 6th Royal Fusiliers. Killed in action 18.10.17 in German East Africa"

His place of birth would be Tansor, near Oundle. Westwood Street in Peterborough disappeared under the Bourges Boulevard in the early 1970s, but was a long street that ran between Maskew Avenue in the north and Westgate at the town end.

The 1918 AVL lists a Oliver Stamford Shrive, at 30 Westwood St., Peterborough - Bombardier, RFA, No. 850871.

So, Peterborough methinks!

Steve.

[SteveE]

Stebie

Thanks for the pointers, looking at 1901 census I can see that John Bernard Shrive's place of birth is indeed Tansor (and Oliver S Shrive is an elder brother).

JBS is listed on the Kings Cliffe War Memorial but I'm also convinced he was recorded on a Peterborough church memorial as well although I can't lay my hands on that particular reference at the moment.

It does indeed look as if Peterborough papers are going to be the more likely to have any details so if you do get chance next time you're there that would be very much appreciated.

Thanks again.

Steve

[Stebie9173]

Don't go away. I think he would be on St John's. I have some pics of that somewhere!

Steve.

[Alastair]

I would be contacting the below who may be a relative (I think his son has the same name suggesting it is a family tradition)

Firm Name:

John B Shrive

Firm Address:

Nelson House

White Lion Street

HOLT

Norfolk

NR25 6BA

Contact Information:

T: 01263 713303

johnshrive@aol.com

[Stebie9173]

Back!

Here he is:

St John's is the church on Cathedral Square. Not that one! The little one....

He should however be in the (new) book of remembrance in the Cathedral.

[SteveE]

Still here ,

That's absolutely brilliant Steve, many thanks.

St. John's is the church behind the Guildhall then?

Steve

[Stebie9173]

Yes, it is.

Do you want a better pic/the other half of the memorial? PM me if so.

Steve.

[SteveE]

Yes please, PM on the way....

Regards

Steve

[SteveE]

I would be contacting the below who may be a relative (I think his son has the same name suggesting it is a family tradition)

Firm Name:

John B Shrive

Firm Address:

Nelson House

White Lion Street

HOLT

Norfolk

NR25 6BA

Contact Information:

T: 01263 713303

johnshrive@aol.com

Thanks Alastair, that could well be worth following up.

Steve

[reevemjr]

Stebie

Thanks for the pointers, looking at 1901 census I can see that John Bernard Shrive's place of birth is indeed Tansor (and Oliver S Shrive is an elder brother).

JBS is listed on the Kings Cliffe War Memorial but I'm also convinced he was recorded on a Peterborough church memorial as well although I can't lay my hands on that particular reference at the moment.

It does indeed look as if Peterborough papers are going to be the more likely to have any details so if you do get chance next time you're there that would be very much appreciated.

Thanks again.

Steve

[Stebie9173]

Just click on Fast Reply, Mike....

Steve.

[Stebie9173]

Oops, Steve.

I took the following picture of the Shrive brothers a month ago, and forgot about it!

From the Peterborough and Hunts Standard of 22-9-1917:

Apologies for the sieve I have for a brain...

I saw it in passing and thought "Ah, someone wanted that", took the picture and then didn't give it another thought. I'll see if there was an article to go with it tomorrow.

Steve.

[Stebie9173]

I don't think I mentioned that there is a Shrive's Chemist in town. Related I wonder?

http://www.chemists-pharmacists-uk.co.uk/3...es-Chemist.html

Steve.

[SteveE]

I took the following picture of the Shrive brothers a month ago, and forgot about it!

Steve

That's fantastic, thanks for the image and for remembering my request, I'd forgotten about it too

Regards

Steve

[reevemjr]

Steve

The photograph of the four brothers is a real find. Thank you for making it available. Richard Shrive was my grandfather.

As for John Bernard Shrive (known as Jack) he worked for Brothertons Peterborough at the beginning of the war in what I believe was a 'reserved occupation'. However he joined up as you know because the pressure was on young men at the time. I have some information from the news papers if this is still required.

Of the brothers Richard 'Dick' stayed in the Army after the 1st World war and between the wars was in Turkey at the time of the Chanak crisis. Then in Southern Ireland at Cork. Later between the wars He was in charge of a gun moving team that moved, refurbished and installed 6in and 9.2 guns at many coastal batteries from Orkney, Broughty Ferry, Cloch Point, Aldhollow, Milford Haven, Kilnsey, Spurn Point, Inchkeith, Dover, Breakwater Battery and a number of others on the South coast in preparation for the expected invasion by Germany. Early on and after the 1st WW there were other gun moving teams but my understanding was that he became an expert in managing his team and in moving the heavy guns safely without loss of life and injury to his men.

I still have a lot to discover to get the timelines correct for these gun movements and to discover just what work he was undertaking. It seems he was also involved with moving AA guns from the east coast to the south in response to Churchill's to build up the defences on the south coast but again specific details are hard to come by. One place mentioned in the family was Tweedle (sic) Lane near Gillingham and Penarth, Wales no doubt there were many more.

Tom Shrive spent some time in India near the Northwest Frontier and Oliver was wounded in the hand at Salonica and went back to Oundle where he worked on his brother Edwards , Jack was the only one to get killed. At the start of the 1st WW Richard was with the 121 (H) Battery and then the 91st Siege Battery.

1918 January 23 – KING’S CLIFFE - Stamford & Rutland News reports

Private J. B. Shrive – Royal Fusiliers, youngest son of Mr T Shrive of Kings Cliffe, formerly of Peterborough and Oundle, fell in East Africa on October 18th. The news has just reached the family in a letter written from the Royal Fusiliers’ Camp, Ujargoo, East Africa, by the Rev. A. G. Collier, C.F. Mr Collier says: “I am writing to tell you the sad news of the death of your son, Private J.B. Shrive, o0f the R.F., who was killed in action near here on October 18th. On that day there was a big battle near here, and many Fusiliers were killed. They were buried in front of our lines, and to-night I am going out to see about their crosses, and to hold a service over them. I pray God to comfort you for the loss of your son, who died bravely fighting for his country and cause of right.” Private Shrive was for five years a Sunday School teacher at St John’s, Peterborough. Mr and Mrs Shrive have two other sons in the Army, and one of them has been wounded. For some time they have been anxious about this son, as they had not heard from him since the middle of last September, when he was at Durban doing well. [stamford & Rutland News 23 January 1918]

Kings Cliffe – ON FURLOUGH – Sergeant T. Shrive, Privates Hy, Moden, Dan Roberts and Tom Pollard. [stamford & Rutland News 23 January 1918]

Kings Cliffe – HOME AGAIN - Many friends of Private Ernest Bollans will be pleased to know that he has arrived home, and is to resume work on the Apethorpe Estate. [stamford & Rutland News 23 January 1918]

Kings Cliffe – KILLED IN ACTION – The sad news has reached Mr. W.T.Shrive, of West Street, that his youngest son, Private J. B. Shrive, of the Royal Fusiliers, was killed in East Africa on October 18th. Deepest sympathy is felt for the sorrowing relatives. [stamford & Rutland News 23 January 1918]

‘CLIFFE OFFICER’S GALLANTRY – Reward – The Military Cross – Second Lieutenant Richard Shrive, of King’s Cliffe, has won the Military Cross for gallant conduct, which is described in the “London Gazette” in the following terms:- Sec.-Lieut. Richard Shrive. R.G.A, special Reserve, King’s Cliffe. – When under heavy shell fire with his battery he entered a burning building and removed a number of cartridges which were on the point of being exploded by the burning debris. By this prompt and gallant action he undoubtedly saved much material as well as considerable damage to the guns.

Lieut. Shrive is a son of Mr. And Mrs Thomas Shrive, formerly of Westwood Street, Peterborough, and now of ‘Cliff. He belongs to the Regular Forces and received his commission from the ranks. He has seen eight years’ service.

We regret to say that a brother of Lieut. Shrive appears in our Roll of Honour this week as having been killed in action. [stamford & Rutland News 23 January 1918]

All Saints’ and St James’, King’s Cliffe: – John Bernard Shrive’s name is listed on the Great War memorial inside the parish church of All Saints’ and St James’ Kings Cliffe.

Did your photo from the Peterborough and Hunts Standard of 22-9-1917 have any further information.

Hope this is useful.

Mike

[Stebie9173]

Welcome to the forum, Mike.

There was no article with the Peterborough Standard article, but this is from the Peterborough Advertiser of 29-9-1917:

Brotherhoods was (still is) a major employer in Peterborough. Could it be Brotherhoods instead of Brothertons?

Steve.

[Stebie9173]

Would you like me to post larger images of the photos?

Steve.

[Stebie9173]

I have a bit of a database of Northamptonshire regiment men. Tom Shrive has a couple of lines:

- No. 7614 in the Northamptonshire Regiment. Number is consistent with enlistment in January 1905.

- Peterborough Mayor's Roll of Honour of city men serving in early 1915: Cpl. Tom Shrive, 5th Battalion, 30 Westwood Street.

- Per Medal card: Embarked to France on 31-5-1915 as a Corporal (lance-Sergeant) with the original contingent of 5th battalion (Divisional Pioneers of 12th Division).

- Awarded 1914-15 Star/British War Medal/Victoey Medal.

- Reported as Wounded as a Sergeant per the Official Casualty Lists of 5-1-1918 (Kings Cliffe) - believed to be with 5th Battalion during the battle of Cambrai between 20th November 1917 and 2nd December 1917.

- Believed to be (by best fit on Census and birth registers): Born in 1885 at Swaffham; Married in 1921 to Daisy Gardner; Son of William T Shrive, willow basket maker, and Mrs Jane Shrive of Stoke End, Oundle as of 1901; a basket maker as of 1901.

Steve.

[Stebie9173]

Richard Shrive's entry on the WO338 officers papers index has a "P/" number denoting that his service record has not been released to the National Archives.

Steve.

[Stebie9173]

Richard Shrive was awarded two medals by the Belgian King - in the same Gazette ...!

London Gazette 25-7-1918

War Office,

25th July, 1918.

The following are among the Decorations and medals awarded by the Allied Powers at various-dates to the British -Forces for distinguished, services rendered during the course of the campaign:—

His Majesty the King has given unrestricted permission in all cases to wear the Decorations and medals in question.

Decorations conferred by

HIS MAJESTY THE KING OF THE

BELGIANS.

Ordre de la Couronne.

Chevalier

Lieutenant Richard Shrive, M.C., Royal Garrison Artillery.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/308...upplements/8726

Croix de Guerre.

Lieutenant Richard Shrive, M.C., Royal Garrison Artillery.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/308...upplements/8728

and he was awarded Military Cross and Bar:

Awarded announcement, London Gazette 26-9-1917

2nd Lt. Richard Shrive, R.G.A., Spec. Res.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/303...upplements/9979

and Citation, London Gazette 9-1-1918

2nd Lt. Richard Shrive, R.G.A., Spec. Res.

For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. When under heavy shell fire with his battery he entered a burning building and removed a number of cartridges which were on the point of being exploded by the burning debris. By this prompt and gallant action he undoubtedly saved much material

as well as considerable damage to the guns.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/30466/supplements/643

Citation for his Bar, London Gazette 4-10-1919

Lt. (A./Capt.) Richard Shrive, M.C.. 91st Sge. Bty., R.G.A.

On 24th October, 1918, near Bousies, in charge of his battery, he was ordered to get a section in action sufficiently far forward to shoot on an important rail-way junction. Despite heavy enemy shelling and several casualties during the night 24th/25th October, ;his guns were in action by 4 p.m. on

25th October, and made excellent practice on the junction. Throughout the operation he displayed courage and sound judgment, and completed his task satisfactorily.

(M.C. gazetted 26th September, 1917.)

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/315...pplements/12253

and the MBE in the King's Birthday Honours of 1931:

CENTRAL CHANCERY OF THE ORDERS OF KNIGHTHOOD.

St. James's Palace, S.W. 1.

3rd June, 1931.

The KING has been graciously pleased, on the occasion of His Majesty's Birthday, to give orders for the following appointments to the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire:—

To be Members of the Military Division of the said Most Excellent Order:-

Captain Richard Shrive, M.C., Royal Artillery.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/337...upplements/3630

Steve.

[reevemjr]

Steve

Yes it was Brotherhoods, a Typo on my part. I used to see a large factory site with many wooden buildings, a bit run down from the train as I passed Peterborough. I have no other information but I assumed that this was where Jack worked. The information on Tom and Oliver is very interesting and conflicts a little with what my grandmother told me. I am not sure but the paper may have mixed up the info between Tom and Oliver but I will need to check it out to be sure.

The reference to Kirkee, India will help a lot in finding out more.

What I know from records and what I was told by Tom's son also Richard was that Tom was in India at Jhalabad (sic) and I have picture of him at a place called Balhousie, there which I will try to post later (I have not had much success in posting pictures yet).

Oliver was at Salonika and then was moved to France and the Somme. He was wounded in the hand by a machine gun bullet 'The Somme' I think and this left him with a stiff hand but it did not prevent him from making baskets and wickerwork a trade he learned from his father William Thomas Shrive known a Tom or Thomas after a brother who died in the Charge of the Light Brigade.

Thanks again

Mike

[Stebie9173]

In case you don't have them, these are some of Richard Shrive's promotions and appointments:

London Gazette 22-7-1918

R.G.A.

The undermentioned to be actg. Capts.:—

14th June 1918.

Lt. R. Shrive, M.C.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/308...upplements/8563

London Gazette 11-4-1919

R.G.A.

The undermentioned Lts. to be actg. Majs. : —

Whilst comdg. Siege Batts. : —

R. Shrive, M.C. 1st Dec. 1918.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/312...upplements/4817

London Gazette 23-1-1920

R.G.A.

The undermentioned relinquish the actg. rank of Maj.: —

On ceasing to comd. Siege Batts. : —

Lt. R. Shrive, M.C. 3rd Apr. 1919.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/317...upplements/1057

London Gazette 27-7-1928

ROYAL REGIMENT OF ARTILLERY.

The undermentioned Lts. to be Capts. 28th July 1928:—

R. Shrive, M.C.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/33407/pages/5047

London Gazette 15-3-1938

ROYAL REGIMENT OF ARTILLERY.

The undermentioned Majs. to be Lt.-Cols. : —

Capt. R. Shrive, M.B.E., M.C., to be Maj. 7th Mar. 1938.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/344...upplements/1751

London Gazette 23-9-1938

ROYAL REGIMENT OF ARTILLERY.

Capt. R. Shrive, M.B.E., M.C., to be Maj. 7th Mar. 1938, with antedate for seniority only to 1st Jan. 1937, and with precedence next below Maj. H. P. McC.

Glover, M.C. (Substituted for the notifn. in the Gazette of 15th Mar. 1938.)

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/34554/pages/6010

London Gazette 21-10-1941

ROYAL REGIMENT OF ARTILLERY.

Maj. (temp. Lt.-Col.) R. Shrive, M.B.E., M.C. (11643), having attained the age for retirement, retires on ret. pay 20th Oct. 1941, and remains empld.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/353...upplements/6090

Steve.

[Stebie9173]

Don't forget that Tom Shrive served pre-war. He could have been with the 1st battalion of the Northamptonshire Regiment on garrison duty - the 1st Battalion were in India through from 1892 to 1910 before they returned to England.

If he served a "standard" period of service he would have served 7 or 8 years on active service, and then gone onto Reserve to finish his balance of 12 years service (1905 to 1917). He would have been recalled from reserve at the outbreak of war, and seems to have been posted to the 5th battalion to bolster their numbers with experienced N.C.O.s

Steve.

[reevemjr]

Steve

This is getting really interesting.

The information on Tom is great. He was in India picture at a place called Balhousie, in the Punjab as I have a photo. I have been unable to find Balhousie, perhaps it is a suburb or European enclave of an Indian city.

Still cannot get the hang of posting a pic. Will keep trying. Otherwise I will have to send it by e-mail. When I click on 'insert image'...........................

Thanks for the information on R Shrive's service record and awards. How does one get his full service record released? I did a long time ago get a list of appointments but only because my mother was his eldest surviving daughter. There is a lot more back in the files but it may be still sensitive.

I am going to turn in now before I fall off my perch.

Thanks for all this. Tomorrow I will weave it into my story of the family.

Mike