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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

1913 Vickers bayonet a fake?


welshdoc

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Welshdoc: I wish you well, but I do not think the National Army Museum will be of much help. there is one person there who may be of help, but he is not a bayonet expert. Ditto the IWM. After Mike H and a couple of others retired from there most of the real expertise has been lost.

I also totally agree with Seph. I don't know what this bayonet is, but my gut feel is that it is "Iffy". (that's a technical term).

A great thread, and all part of the "learning curve".

regards

TonyE

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AH well it will go with my other mysterious memorobilia . I recently got some old autographed pictures of film stars and the same result, some think this ones ok the next person thinks it aint.

One final question have any of the collectors / experts on the forum ever heard of or seen a faked P1913 Vickers (not including mine)?

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One final question have any of the collectors / experts on the forum ever heard of or seen a faked P1913 Vickers (not including mine)?

In answer... I've seen pics of a few over the years, but never had the privalage of actually putting my mits on one.. sadly! :(

Heres something that I wander if anyone has considered. Have you tried getting in touch with the firm of Vickers? They are still around, and their main armament production is the Vickers Medium Battle Tank. Most armament firms have an archive, and I'm certain that Vickers must also keep one up to date. Its worth a try dont you think?

Seph

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Now Seph that is a bl**dy good idea! I will google and have a look see. Its driving me mad not knowing for 100% sure ( Im about 80% sure but live in hope to have the Holy grail).

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Yes Andy Ive just had a look at their website, if I want a 2 used tornadoes Im OK but I doubt they will have much info on a 1917 bayonet.

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Vickers archives are still around and are at Cambridge University library.. I have beem through a lot of them (mainly looking for ammunition details) but can't say I saw anything about the P.13/14 contract.

Regards

TonyE

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I think it would be worth a try TonyE.

About three years ago I made to enquire about certain details in reference to Enfield, but was told the firm had moved from the stated location, and the works had long closed down (which I did not know at that time). However, the archives are still around. The same applies to Remington, but they have no archivist as such, just an interested individual as head of department. They also still have archives as such.

Unless their records were destroyed during the Blitz of WW2, I think its a good area to research... going straight to the horses mouth so-to-speak.

Seph

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Vickers archives are still around and are at Cambridge University library.. I have beem through a lot of them (mainly looking for ammunition details) but can't say I saw anything about the P.13/14 contract.

Regards

TonyE

Anything in the archives at Kew relating to the Pattern 14 rifle contract? (the ones you mentioned in post 54)?

I'll be at Kew in a week or two for a couple of days so if you could give me a likely ref I might be able to have a look

Chris

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AH well it will go with my other mysterious memorobilia . I recently got some old autographed pictures of film stars and the same result, some think this ones ok the next person thinks it aint.

Generally I find the next statement after they have told you it is a fake is 'I'll give you a couple of quid to take it off your hands as a favour'

mick

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I have now found 4 of the 1913 pattern Vickers and all have identical inspection marks 9C over E. So all is looking good for a very lucky car boot find :rolleyes:

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  • 4 weeks later...

So I took the offending item to the BArry Memorial day yesterday and showded it to several local collectors, needless to say they had never seen one, but agreed that there was no sign of any marks being ground off. I was also told of various other bayonets in their collections which did not have all the marks. Their impression it was a good one irrespective of its problems. So thats the current state of play. Incidently I was shown a real beaut, a 1907 pattern marked and numbered to the Welsh Guards, Nice :rolleyes:

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I am pleased for you that the opinion of other collectors who have actually now seen and handled your bayonet is that it is OK.

Regards

TonyE

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Its certainly an oddity, whether one beleives the date stamp is still an issue although the font appears to be correct. The fact that it has not had anything ground off suggests there was never "1907" impressed on it. The other markings on it are in the opinion of those I spoke to correct . So apart from the missing manufacture date and the acceptance mark all seems well.

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Its certainly an oddity, whether one beleives the date stamp is still an issue although the font appears to be correct. The fact that it has not had anything ground off suggests there was never "1907" impressed on it. The other markings on it are in the opinion of those I spoke to correct . So apart from the missing manufacture date and the acceptance mark all seems well.

Thanks for the update.

Chris

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello Chaps.... I'm back!!

This darn site would not let me back in for the past couple of months... I've nearly pulled my hair out trying every combination of log-in username and password that I use. :wacko:

Whats the concensus on the Vickers?

Seph

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Be advised that AWOL is a serious military offense and you're in deep deep trouble, but not as deep as the contents the stable of which you are now orderly in perpetuity.

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Hi good to see you back Seph, with all the comparisons with the Vickers Ive found on the internet I beleive it to be a good one. When I showed it to some bayonet collectors at the Barry exhibition, they said they had never actualy seen one,their books did not even have a pic. they agreed though that it had not been messed with in particular they checked for a hollow where any grinding on dates had been removed. The feeling was that just because it did not have all the expected marks did not made it wrong . For whatever reason though it was not issued as no government arrow. THe poor stamping of the 1913 though remains an issue. Gareth

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