Whizz-bang's, Whistling Percies and Minnies.

[damiangt]

I would appreciate information as to the nature of Whizz-bangs, Minnies and Whistling Percies. Each of these terms, and no-doubt others that I can't immediately recall, were used by my Great Uncle in his trench diary and letters home from Flanders in 1918 to describe different shell-types. I guess the shells were identifiable by their distinctive noises as they hurtled overhead. Is that right?

If anybody can help me understand which shell was which, I would be most grateful...

[Bryn_Hammond]

In my book about the battle of Cambrai, I've included a photo of a 5.9-inch (150mm) German 'naval' gun captured in Lateau Wood on 20 November 1917 by 6th Royal West Kents. The caption implied that this particular gun was known as 'Whistling Percy' but your post suggests (if your Great Uncle wasn't writing about Cambrai in his trench diary) that the 5.9 gun was generally known as 'Whistling Percy'. I'd be interested to get more detail to confirm this.

Thanks

Bryn

[centurion]

Whizz bangs (covered in an earlier thread) were shells fired from a high velocity relatively flat trajectory weapon such as the German 76, the British 18 pounder and the French 75. The name is onomatopoeic as that is what you heard (many unfortunates only heard the whizz).

Minnies are large trench mortar rounds fired from German Minenwerfers - very slow so you could often see them coming.

Whistling Percies, Walters or Willies (also known as Pissing Jennies) were fired from long range high trajectory guns. However Whistling Percy was a flat trajectory German naval gun (captured at 1st Cambrai)

[Chris Henschke]

What type of gun was a 'German 76'?

[centurion]

A mistype

[Chris B]

The glossary to my 1973 edition of "The Wipers Times" gives the following meanings to items mentioned in the WT -

Coal Box - a heavy shell burst - named for its black smoke

Johnson - as above - named after the boxer Jack Johnson

Flying Pigs or Oil Cans - German trench mortar of c.10 inch diameter

Silent Percy - any long range gun the report of which could not be heard

Chris

[damiangt]

Thanks all, really helpful!

[centurion]

Lazy Eliza, Weary Willie - Shell from a long range gun that passes well over head to explode away to the rear

Load o' slack - Debris from a big shell

Rubber Gun - Extremely long range gun

Stumer - shell that fails to explode

[SiegeGunner]

Stumer - shell that fails to explode

I have no expertise in these matters, but 'Stumer' sounds as if it comes from German (or Yiddish) 'Stummer' = 'dumb one' = 'dud'.

[geraint]

Have also read an account where a German 'pip squeak' is mentioned

[centurion]

I have no expertise in these matters, but 'Stumer' sounds as if it comes from German (or Yiddish) 'Stummer' = 'dumb one' = 'dud'.

Apparently it comes from the slang for a bad (or dud) cheque. Could well be Yiddish in origin, a lot of slang was.

[charlesmessenger]

Coal boxes and Jack Johnsons referred to the German 150mm gun.

Charles M

[centurion]

Coal boxes and Jack Johnsons referred to the German 150mm gun.

Actually anything fired from a 5.9 or heavier - the observers would have no direct knowledge of exactly which gun fired it.

[Neil Clark]

The brother of Lt Col A.D BORTON VC - Biffy Borton invented the name "ARCHIE" for anti-aircraft gunfire. The story goes is that there was a song where Archie was mentioned. Whenever he experienced anti-aircraft gunfire in the air he started to sing this song... And so was born ARCHIE...

[centurion]

The brother of Lt Col A.D BORTON VC - Biffy Borton invented the name "ARCHIE" for anti-aircraft gunfire. The story goes is that there was a song where Archie was mentioned. Whenever he experienced anti-aircraft gunfire in the air he started to sing this song... And so was born ARCHIE...

The song had the refrain "Archibald certainly not!" as the fingers of some ardent swain (who probably wanted to be promoted to a lustful swine) were rapped with a fan. However I find the story a little piscine as who would know what he was singing? If in a single seater - no one there, if a two seater his observer would not be able to hear!

[geraint]

What's a pip squeak?

[centurion]

What's a pip squeak?

A whizz bang containing gas (as evry fule nows )

[NigelS]

What's a pip squeak?

This ones in the OED which as well as giving, A contemptuous name for an insignificant person , also gives:

2. a. A small type of high velocity shell distinguished by the sound of its flight.

1916 E. V. Lucas Vermilion Box 209 Whatever else there is to grumble at over here, wet, and rats, and Pip-Squeaks and Jack Johnsons+we do get two things up to sample. 1916 Cornh. Mag. Mar. 395 They're ‘pip-squeak’ and splinter-proof, of course. 1917 A. G. Empey Over Top 304 Pip squeak, Tommy's term for a small German shell which makes a ‘pip’ and then a ‘squeak’, when it comes over. 1927 E. Thompson These Men, thy Friends 176 The Turkish guns suddenly sent over a couple of pipsqueaks. a1936 Kipling Something of Myself (1937) vi. 159 One indubitable shell—ridiculously like a pip-squeak in that vastness but throwing up much dirt.

BUT FOR WWII

c. (See quots. 1943, 1970.) slang.

1943 C. H. Ward-Jackson Piece of Cake 48 Pip-squeak, the instrument in an aircraft by the aid of which one gets a ‘Fix’. This instrument emits a pip-squeak at short intervals which is synchronised over the radio with base, thus fixing the time, an essential prelude to fixing the position of the aircraft. 1946 Brickhill & Norton Escape to Danger vi. 60 Forgetting to switch off his ‘pip-squeak’ (radio contactor), Mickey climbed thankfully out on to the wing. 1970 Partridge Dict. Slang (ed. 7) II. 1330/2 ‘The pip-squeak was an automatic transmitter only, whose once-a-minute signals enabled ground direction-finding stations to fix the aircraft's position accurately for the benefit of the Fighter Controller in the Operations Room.+’ (Ramsey Spencer, March 1967.)

and the origination of Jack Johnsons

d. Jack Johnson [from the name of a noted American Negro boxer, whose nickname was ‘The Big Smoke’], = Black Maria 2.

1914 Illustr. London News 10 Oct. 504/1 The German ‘Jack Johnson’ siege-guns. Ibid. 505 The gigantic projectile which on bursting makes the black smoke called ‘Jack Johnson’. 1919 [see Black Maria 2]. 1962 J. B. Priestley Margin Released ii. iii. 101 The German heavy batteries+dropped ‘Jack Johnsons’ among us.

with the WWI usage of Black Maria:

2. A name used by soldiers in the war of 1914–18 for a German shell that on bursting emitted volumes of dense smoke, and for a German gun.

1914 Scotsman 12 Oct. 10/5 The 16-inch ‘Black-Maria’ shells of the heaviest German artillery. 1916 E. W. Hamilton First 7 Div. 125 The enemy were all this time steadily outranging our artillery with its big eleven-inch guns, popularly known as ‘Black Marias’. 1919 Athenæum 11 July 583/2 For high or low velocity German shells, as substitutes for ‘marmite’, the British soldier came out with ‘coalbox’, ‘Black Maria’, ‘Jack Johnson’, ‘heavy stuff’.

NigelS

EDIT & "marmite"

b. slang. A bomb or shell resembling a pot.

1915 G. Adam Behind Scenes at Front 48 The graves in the churchyard have been torn open by ‘marmites’. 1919 [see Black Maria 2]

and so it goes on & on...

[centurion]

A pip squeak was usually a whizz that didn't go bang because it contained gas not high explosive. - see The Long Trail - but presumably could also be a dud whizz bang

[damiangt]

I've also found from my great-uncle's archive that the field postcard was also nicknamed a "whizzbang"..

[Robert Dunlop]

Whizzbang is sometimes used to mean the 'whizz' of the shell in flight followed by the 'bang' when it exploded. It describes the experience of supersonic shells where the 'whizz' was followed by the sound of the gun firing, 'bang'. This meant it did not give the same warning as the lower velocity shells, where the 'bang' was followed by the sound of the approaching shell. This being the case, gas-filled 77mm shells would still have the charateristic of sound of the whizzbang. The end-result was definitely different - the characteristic 'plop' rather than the sound of an exploding shell (some word other than 'bang').

Robert

[centurion]

Well Brophy and Partridge who had actual experience of the things still define a Pip Squeak as a gas shell form of whizz bang.

[Robert Dunlop]

Correct.

Robert