wyndham Posted 14 September , 2008 Share Posted 14 September , 2008 I have seen this officer's RNAS record and should like to raise a few questions which I am sure the experts on this site can answer. 1. He learnt to fly at Redcar and it would be interesting to know the type of planes he would have flown and what he qualified in. 2. He then went to Cranwell and his record shows he was recommended for seaplanes. How would this come about? Is it based on supply and demand? 3. He transferred to Felixstowe where he trained further on small and large American boats. However, he was flying out of Great Yarmouth when he was killed on 30 May 1918. There is no date of transfer to the latter, so can I presume that Felixstowe is the controlling station? 4. He was awarded the DSC for sinking an enemy submarine 0n 29 July 1917. Is it possible to discover further details of this exploit, i.e.where and what type of submarine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 14 September , 2008 Share Posted 14 September , 2008 Hello, I found no trace of a German submarine sunk by an airplane on 29/7/1917 Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted 14 September , 2008 Share Posted 14 September , 2008 Wyndham Is this your man? Regards IanC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 14 September , 2008 Share Posted 14 September , 2008 "RN Aircraft Serials & Units" gives: Ser 8662 (Curtiss H.8 Large America) "With [ser] 8676 dropped bomb on UB20, which sank, 7nm NW of North Hinder 29/7/17 (FSL CL Young DSC, FSL AT Barker, AM2(E) WJ Priest, & L/Tel HT Wilks)." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 14 September , 2008 Share Posted 14 September , 2008 Hello, some sources states that UB20 was sunk by air planes. othr sources sattes that the UB 20 was sunk by a sea mine on 28/7/17 Other sources states that the pilots who attacked the UB 20, mentionned in their reports after return to base, that the sub was of UC-type. (but the British aviators could easily been wrong in naming the type) Some years ago, divers investigated the wreck of UB20, and said that there was severe damage to the bow, with torpedotubes almost completely torn away, typical for a sea mine. I think it will stay a mistery how UB20 came to her end. Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyndham Posted 14 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 14 September , 2008 Cnock/IanC/horathio2 What can I say; having mowed the lawn, cleaned out the fish pond, had a shower followed by my tea, virtually all my questions have been answered! Gentlemen, thank you ever so much. However, to add to the information on the UB20, the following is from the officer's service record:- "Operation Report No 38: - 29.7.17. Dropped bombs on enemy S/M making two direct hits. Submarine sank stern first. A/02363. CW09796. 22.8.17. Awarded D.S.C. for above exploit." As Cnock states it is doubtful if the way in which this vessel was sunk can be proved absolutely; but surely there must have been witnesses to this action as it is quite unlikely that a medal at this level would have been awarded purely on the pilot's say-so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 14 September , 2008 Share Posted 14 September , 2008 Hi Wyndham, look here : I want to be clear : I am the last to say they didn't believe what they reported. Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 15 September , 2008 Share Posted 15 September , 2008 3. He transferred to Felixstowe where he trained further on small and large American boats. However, he was flying out of Great Yarmouth when he was killed on 30 May 1918. There is no date of transfer to the latter, so can I presume that Felixstowe is the controlling station? Date of transfer might be on his RAF service record in AIR 76/566. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 15 September , 2008 Share Posted 15 September , 2008 Hi Wyndham ! I found this ..... it's quite interesting to follow the links !! but heres more than one theory ....... UB-20 "28 Jul, 1917 - Hit a mine and sank with all hands while on a diving trial off Zeebrugge at 51.21N, 02.38E." UB-20 "Destroyed by Seaplanes 8676 and 8862, in the North Sea, 29th July, 1917. UB-20 "July 28. Mined. Possibly sunk by two seaplanes off N.Hinder L.V. the same day while on a 'Jolly' with guests aboard including some women." http://www.uboat.net/forums/read.php?23,73219,73219,quote=1 Annie PS How wonderful to get a photograph !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyndham Posted 16 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 September , 2008 Cnock/per adua/Annie Thank you all once again for the replies. It's quite amazing there are so many versions as to what happened to UB20; it will have to remain a mystery which I doubt will ever be solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadsac Posted 17 September , 2008 Share Posted 17 September , 2008 `Et Al' - here are awards for `sinking' of submarine - maybe `your' boat- note for BOMBING enemy submarine - not for sinking of sub ??? ; MACKENZIE Warren R DSC Flt.Lt. RNAS 85T149 Seaplane 8676 Rear Admiral Shotley 14.09.17 Gazetted R.N.A.S. Officers - Submarine Attack by Seaplanes 8662 & 8676 29.07.17 DSC - bar to For good services in bombing an enemy submarine on the 29th July, 1917. YOUNG Charles L N/E Flt.S/Lt. RNAS 85T149 Seaplane 8662 Rear Admiral Shotley 14.09.17 Gazetted R.N.A.S. Officers - Submarine Attack by Seaplanes 8662 & 8676 29.07.17 DSC For good services in bombing an enemy submarine on the 29th July, 1917. Sadsac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadsac Posted 17 September , 2008 Share Posted 17 September , 2008 `Et Al' - awards to other flight-crew members of A/C's 8662 & 8676 ; BARKER Arthur T N/E Flt.S/Lt. RNAS 85T149 Seaplane 8662 Rear Admiral Shotley 14.09.17 Gazetted R.N.A.S. Officers - Submarine Attack by Seaplanes 8662 & 8676 29.07.17 Mentioned in Despatches For good services in bombing an enemy submarine on the 29th July, 1917. BALL Sidney E N/E Flt.S/Lt. RNAS 85T149 Seaplane 8676 Rear Admiral Shotley 14.09.17 Gazetted R.N.A.S. Officers - Submarine Attack by Seaplanes 8662 & 8676 29.07.17 Mentioned in Despatches For good services in bombing an enemy submarine on the 29th July, 1917. Again not for SINKING submarine !! Note ; based Shotley (Harwich). Sadsac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyndham Posted 17 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 17 September , 2008 sadsac Thank you for this additional information; it definitely puts a slightly different twist on the sinking of UB20! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salientguide Posted 20 October , 2019 Share Posted 20 October , 2019 Just to resurrect this thread a decade later! On a recent visit to Key Hill cemetery in Birmingham I came across his story via his parents headstone which has the inscription on, as below in his memory. There also appears some confusion as to wethwer he had beeen awarded the DSC or the DFC mentioned on differing stones. Can any pal clarify? SG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 20 October , 2019 Share Posted 20 October , 2019 DSC 14 September 1917 as Flight Sub Lieutenant RNAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topgun1918 Posted 20 October , 2019 Share Posted 20 October , 2019 Admiralty, 14th September, 1917. HONOURS FOR SERVICES IN ACTION WITH ENEMY SUBMARINES. The KING has been graciously pleased to approve of the award of the following honours, decorations and medals to Officers and Men for services in action with enemy Submarines:— To receive the Distinguished Service Cross. Flt. Lieut. (actg. Flt. Cdr.) Osborne Arthur Butcher, R.N.A.S. Flt. Lieut. John Osborn Galpin, R.N.A.S. Flt. Sub-Lieut. Charles Leslie Young, R.N.A.S. Unfortunately, no citation. Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 21 October , 2019 Share Posted 21 October , 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, salientguide said: Just to resurrect this thread a decade later! On a recent visit to Key Hill cemetery in Birmingham I came across his story via his parents headstone which has the inscription on, as below in his memory. Court of Enquiry No. 61028/18 Captain T.V. (sic) Young, D.S.C. R.A.F. Ensign J.T. Roe, U.S.N.F.C. Cpl. Grant, 211338, "E" Private J.N. Money, 207040. W/T Private W.S. Chase, 213914. G/L This machine was flying in company with F.2.A. No. 4295, Captain Fitzrandolph, on long reconnaissance patrol to Borkum Area and was forced to landing with engine trouble 25 yo 30 miles North-West of Borkum Island. F.2.A No. 4295 stood-by for 50 minutes until attacked by two enemy sea planes; during the encounter with these machines 4295 lost sight of 8660 and, although she searched the area for one hour was unable to find her, so returned to Base, landing at 4.45.p.m. At 6.0.p.m. F.2.A No. 4512, Captain Leckie was sent to search a wide area round the position in which 8660 landed; this machine returned at 11.0.p.m. reporting good visibility but to (sic) trace of 8660. A Pigeon returned to Base at 7.55.P.M. with the following message:- "F.2.A. 8660 on water attacked by three Huns." http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/young-c.l.-charles-leslie JP Edit: Charles Leslie Young DSC and Henry Francis Chase - Hollybrook Memorial, Southampton: https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?cemetery=Hollybrook%2BMemorial%2c%2BSouthampton&war=1&exactDate=30-05-1918 Edited 21 October , 2019 by helpjpl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salientguide Posted 23 October , 2019 Share Posted 23 October , 2019 Thanks all for clarification any indication what the DSC was for? Previous posts seemed to indicate attack on a u boat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salientguide Posted 26 October , 2019 Share Posted 26 October , 2019 Out of interest his panel at the Southampton memorial to those missing in N Sea ( including Kitchener who is commemorated on a seperate panel ) clearly shows him as DFC should we report this apparent error to CWGC? SG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 29 December , 2020 Share Posted 29 December , 2020 The case of loss for UB 20 is not as issue. It is a mine. UB 20 returned from patrol in the English Channel on June 17, 1917. That same day the boat was damaged during an air raid on Bruges. Repairs were conducted at Ostend and lasted until July 27. The next day, UB 20 sailed with a reduced crew on what should have been a four-hour series of trials. She did not return to port. The wreck has subsequently been located and identified through propeller markings. The location off Ostend matches a minefield laid by the destroyer HMS Telemachus on July 14, 1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now