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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Metal Detectors in France


KIRKY

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Just a quick anecdote re: metal detector finds in the UK, for comparison - Camp Field due East of my home town purportedly the site of a Civil War army en route to Marston Moor, scavenged and picked over by a generation of metal detectorists who have recently given up 'because they've found everything'. No liason with local museum, no increase in the sum total of knowledge about the site. On the other hand, other detectorists regularly bring in flint, stone, bone, metal, ceramics for recording and truly want to key their finds in to a wider historic enquiry about i) the site and ii) the landscape.

Very varied indeed, incongruous and difficult to navigate.

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  • 1 month later...

In my professional opinion and former Bomb disposal, anyone who picks up or removes UXB's needs his head tested. How many on here know what is and what to look for when it comes to 18 pdr and 4.5 inch shells, Used by the British.

The reason why I ask is because some, well most 18 pdr and 4.5 inch shells were filled with phosgene and mustard.

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The reason why I ask is because some, well most 18 pdr and 4.5 inch shells were filled with phosgene and mustard.

The vast majority of 18 pdr shells were shrapnel or HE, comparitively speaking a tiny amount were gas filled.

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I believe that the French Authorities have over 100 people employed full time on munitions clearance, and that a number have been killed in recent years - no doubt somebody on the forum can provide accurate statistics.

Terry is dead right in his comments, you don't get a second chance to rectify any mistake made with these things, and I am amazed that people could consider trading / dealing / transporting these objects - imagine what could happen if one went off in the boot of someone's car whilst in the Chunnell..!!

Rob.

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Both the French and Belgian armies have specialist teams working flat out to destroy munitions.

In fact, the Belgians have recently expanded their workshops and sites.

We had a talk on this subject about a year ago and the Belgian army guy in charge of this said that they had enough to be going on with for about 1000 years at the present rate.

High explosive is normally collected in a pile in a quarry they have and then exploded. gas shells have to be steamed out in a special container (that can hold them if they do explode - which they shouldn't.

Its quite a complex field and having now seen the complexities I think I'll leave it to them and not meddle (not that I had much inclination to do so, anyway). I once had to dismantle a hand grenade and that was quite enough for me.

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Back in 87 or 89 near Reading, a place called Bramley which use to be the old school of Ammo (CAD Bramley) The land was sold off bt the MOD, and contractors moved in, while digging some shells were dug up so the contractors called the police and the police called the Royal Engineers in.

The RE's found something like 250 18 pdr and 175 4.5 inch shells, with plugs on the side. So in the end the RE's called the RAOC who specialist in all ammo and I was one of those specialist. The shells were filled with phosgene and mustard. It tooks us over 3 weeks to x ray them and bag them in fullers earth. For transport to Porton Down. The plugs on these shells were hard to see.

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It's my opinion that the Great War is sufficiently well documented in written text, pictures, period video taping and sound recordings that the artifacts (i.e. archeological record) have no new information to offer us historically.

The evidence from the archaeology carried out recently by No Man's Land indicates that this isn't the case. Obviously final conclusions await a full analysis of the findings by more learned members of the team, but the results to date are showing that the archival evidence doesn't always match the physical evidence.

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My Webpage

Just look under side headings for Death waits on a Belgian beach and Poison gas. You wil want to bring a gas mask with you next time

Frans

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The sight used in my post is clearly The great Heritage of the great war, not my web site. I am one these persons that is very pleased when having been able to switch on his computor without blowing it up. So how the hell my web site came up I don't know.

Frans

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Don't worry, it's the default headline for when you post a link, Frans.

It's still a great website though, thanks for bringing it to my attention, even if it's not yours ^_^

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  • 6 months later...

A distressed, exhausted and forum battlescarred PAJORO comes running over the field and jumps into Jumberly's trench.... :ph34r:

Keep it up mate. That's the ticket. Starts with a small idea and yours hits the mark. A bit more focus and maybe you'll hit the bullseye. Interesting to note Jumberly is that your idea, would also inhibit the activities of certain Battlefield collectors. A bit of support/advisory comments would be helpful wouldn't it?

You have a relative buried in a named grave.He died of wounds "holding the line" in January 1915. You were not in that battle, Your in a battle here though. Hold the line as others will join this forum irrespective of the bombastic sarcastic ridicule of some of the forums members replies in this thread.

If you are going to quote him folks don't take him out of context. Each to their own...

Now why did I not come up with his idea :angry: . The French, Germans and Japanese have been capitalising the investments/purchase of land in both Scotland and (particularly) Ireland.

'Disney Land' surely thart's well below you lot. He's making a serious well meant point. <_<

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'Disney Land' surely thart's well below you lot. He's making a serious well meant point.  <_<

What I meant to type is some of you not you lot ;)

Good grief am I going to get it now. Im off to find a deeper trench. I wish I was a metal tortoise...bummer :angry:

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  • 1 month later...

I remember doing an exercise at Bramley when i was in the army at Arborfield near reading. Coming from Leeds I thought we were in for a very long drive (there's a Bramley in Leeds, you see?)....... but no!

Anyway I digress. Being a former soldier with a tank and artillery repair background I can fully understand the fascination and interest that equipment and ordnance has for people. However I cannot for the life of me think why anyone would wish to have anything in their home that could be unsafe. I am definitely not an expert in ammunition or ordnance, I'll leave that to terryewalker, but I know enough about the potential these things have for ruining your day, and that experience comes from watching the effects of shiny new projectiles that have been lovingly cared for and not buried for 90 years festering under fields. Heaven knows how fragile the detonation mechanisms get. I would be more than happy to leave well alone! I do however appreciate the aesthic beauty of a crisply scored driving band!

In a sandy place in 1991 I was asked to make some souvenir ashtrays and desk tidies from shell cases (one of the things I made was a pressure vessel for driving porosity out of denture teeth, but thats another story), The mount of paperwork required to have these items certified free from explosive was enormous and in the end it was decided that it was more hassle than it was worth and to my knowledge my unit (MRG6) brought back not one item of trench art. I was however gainfully employed on my return from said sandy place for a whole month in the art of deactivating small arms of all kinds (each with it's own variant of the FFE certificate).

My line is that of visitors to game reserves, take only photographs and leave only footprints.... far safer.

At Vimy in 97 we were told that a British 15 year old on a school trip had nipped into the wood to answer the call of nature and had set something off which killed him. Thats reason enough for me to look but dont touch.

Nigel

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Fascinating - does said paperwork herald the 'end' of trench art?

Maybe not, but it's interesting to see an example of perhaps why certain types of trench art would proliferate and others decline, in a given period (WWI/II/'91).

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Simon

I think the reason why my unit stopped this particular genre of trench art was because we were a unit which took in work from the whole brigade, so we were constantly busy (working round the clock in 2 shifts for 5 months, in that time I had a day and a half off!), and the trench art was always going to come second to the actual business of keeping the essential equipment working. in a modern technical war we didn't get the time to sit in the trench bottom hammering away at a shell case, more's the pity!

Don't get me wrong, once the correct form was filled out within the unit it was easy enough to have an item checked and certified FFE, it was trying to get an officer to have the patience to match each item to the request forms that was the difficult part, and imagine that repeated dozens of times a day, then you'll have an idea of why my unit gave up on it.

Also people had the annoying habit of bringing things in expecting miracles in an hour, plus the odd weapon, fully loaded, damaged and just ready to ruin your day!

Seriously, one of my armourer mates was badly hurt when a weapon left outside our machinery wagon exploded when he picked it up to do NSP's (Normal Safety Precautions) on it. He was picking peppercorn sized bits of steel out of his face for at least a year.

I turned out a few nice items which no doubt made it back home with other units, but my own had a blanket ban on it in personal baggage and everything that went back in unit baggage ended up in various messes and the HQ building.

Nigel

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Dogflud

Yes Vimy is a scary place. I visited in the mid 90s and about an acre of woodland was being closed off by police and army diposal teams. We were told an area of ground had weathered away exposing a large pile of unfired shells, many of which were gas filled. The park wasn't closed but you were not allowed nearer than about 300 metres. It was quite near the car park by the main memorial. I expect they were cleared quickly.

Gunner Bailey

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  • 1 year later...

Collecting artifacts on the Somme

Of course we all know that metal detecting on the fields is illegal. I visit the Somme each year and walk the fields, picking up anything of interest. People should be aware that collecting in this area is BIG! There are litterally hundreds of French collectors that are experts and yes, they clearly use detectors. It is my belief that the French police are in league with them. A person I know of, who is English, vists regularly searching, winckling and collecting from French collectors was recently stopped by the police and grilled, with all his details being logged on a Lap-Top! It is believed he 'upset' some French collectors and his details fed to the police who followed up. Luckily he was clean.

My tips are, do not use a detector and do not touch ANYTHING that is live and that includes rounds (bullets in shells) and if stopped be perfectly honest and respectable to the police. If you've found anything interesting, show them. If they feel you are not a threat there won't be a problem.

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Back in 87 or 89 near Reading, a place called Bramley which use to be the old school of Ammo (CAD Bramley) The land was sold off bt the MOD, and contractors moved in, while digging some shells were dug up so the contractors called the police and the police called the Royal Engineers in.

The RE's found something like 250 18 pdr and 175 4.5 inch shells, with plugs on the side. So in the end the RE's called the RAOC who specialist in all ammo and I was one of those specialist. The shells were filled with phosgene and mustard. It tooks us over 3 weeks to x ray them and bag them in fullers earth. For transport to Porton Down. The plugs on these shells were hard to see.

If you were involved with the Bramley clearance you will know the history of this site. As well as being a major artillery depot and ammunition dump during the war, it was also the collection site for unwanted gas shells post war. A civilian contractor was involved and he found it cheaper to bury many of the shells rather than correctly de-bug and empty them. That is why there was such a prevalence of gas shells.

Out of the roughly 100 million 18 Pdr and 25 million 4.5" shells fired in just France (not counting Belgium and other theatres) a very small percentage were gas, as Max says.

Regards

TonyE

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  • 2 weeks later...

personally, i do not understand why anyone would want to remove anything from the battlefields for financial or personal gain. Better left there, and if you do find anything on a walk, look at it, photograph it and walk away. You only have to look at the work of the De Diggers in Belgium to know what the potential risks are, and that aside, these places to are sacred and best left to experienced organizations to deal with. It disappoints me to read that people would want to reap the benefits from a part of our history that should be treated with respect and dignity.

Alison

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In France 2 weeks ago I saw a French magazine for metal detector enthusiasts, so they can't be illegal. I'm going back next week so If the magazine is still on sale I might buy it to see what they find over there. I hope it doesn't show loads of people digging on the Somme and making loads of money on e-bay!!!!

Gunner Bailey

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  • 15 years later...

Hello there from the true North of Canada and I was wondering if I’d ever go to France some day am I allowed to metal detect in certain places or Is it a huge no no everywhere.

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2 hours ago, Kaiden johnson said:

Hello there from the true North of Canada and I was wondering if I’d ever go to France some day am I allowed to metal detect in certain places or Is it a huge no no everywhere.

Hello and welcome to the forum!

I'm no expert in this matter, hell this thread is older than me by a few years! 
But I think it's a big no anywhere

Somebody will probably say otherwise.
Zidane.

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