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Remembered Today:

Metal Detectors in France


KIRKY

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I would be quite happy to believe anything about the UK Customs.

Now that they can't stop you brining more than one bottle of spirits, etc. into the UK, they are desperately looking for anything that brings in the cash (they get a bonus related to how much is seized).

What is more they tell barefaced lies if you complain. I was once followed around the UK for two days by an utterly incompetent team (my daughter even noticed them). A complaint made personally to the Head of the Customs by a certain member of the House of Lords (who said that he had confidence ion this guy, which presumably means he had no confidence, with reason, in the rest of the bunch) elicicted the reply that they didn't do such things. I can only say that if that is the case they allow anyone to wander into their offices at Dover Docks and park in their carpark! They think we're all daft.

As for not accepting that if a shell is emptied in Europe it isn't really empty! I'm not surprised. Yet more of the 'only the British know how to do it properly' syndrome.

But don't do it unless purchased from a reputable dealer. Do not go looking for shells on the battlefield.

If you want to send anything small back, how about using the Post Office? They do actually have them in France and even Belgium.

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The whole area is a real grey one - you probably know that Belgian guy who sells in the UK - especially at War and Peace and Military Odyssey - he brings some 400+ shells into the UK - last year he had complete boxes of Great War German Eggs and even a complete box of VB's!  He's not the only one,  some of the other big Euro dealers had stands looking like a scene from a WWII arms dump...

Giles

There's one Belgian that visits the big UK fairs and he's the Chief of Police

in one of the cities Flanders, or he certainly was a couple of years ago, and

he has a wealth of stuff on his stand, Shells, grenades, etc. I even got a nice

Belgian trench knife off him a couple of years ago.

With regard to my comment about bringing shells back to the UK. I've heard

various stories about people being stopped with shells either purchased in

France or dug up (which is totalling stupid anyway) and then given a right

going over.

Which has just this minute reminded me of something I saw in Calais while

waiting to board the Shuttle several years ago. It was late a night on a week day

so not many people about, and there was a chap standing next to his car in one of

the lanes, no cars or people within about 200 yards of him. Suddenly a police or

customers van pulls across in front of him, three coppers get out and one starts

talking to him and the next minute they three of them start beating the living

daylights out of this chap and eventually dragged him off to what appear to be

a small police office by the side of the ramps. I was just gob-smacked. I dont

know what nationality this chap was.

Sorry to diviate but discussing customs just brought in back to me

Geoff

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Guest Andy Kellett

The French customs really love me. For years I was stopped every time I tried to get into France or leave France to enter Belgium. About 15 years ago a friend and myself were stopped at Armentieres while the customs emptied the car, took out the seats and carpets and went through our dirty washing. After finding nothing they put everything back for us. One of the customs men had left his "Kepi" hat on the back seat. What a sounenir! As we drove off he suddenly realised and ran after us and another customs man blocked our progress. We were then subjected to a long lecture on Perfidious Albion.

Since the opening of the Channel Tunnel the British customs have caught the mood and stop me for a long chat and search every time. I now build the inevitable delay into my schedule. I don't why I'm picked on, they have never found anything.

As regards as earlier comments on this thread about the attitude of French farmers and other locals in the battle areas I've never had the slightest problem and have often been shown great courtesy and friendliness.

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Giles comments :

The whole area is a real grey one - you probably know that Belgian guy who sells in the UK - especially at War and Peace and Military Odyssey - he brings some 400+ shells into the UK - last year he had complete boxes of Great War German Eggs and even a complete box of VB's! He's not the only one, some of the other big Euro dealers had stands looking like a scene from a WWII arms dump...can certainly be backed up as attached is a photo I took at the War and Peace show at the Hop Farm in Kent last July

They would have no hope in Australia where the laws governing such things are very tough

Peter ;)

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Hey, that reminds me of another Australian I met at War & Peace to collect a Stokes mortar from me - except this one had a crazy idea he was going to take it back on the plane with him...

...I wonder if they 'both' made it?

:unsure:

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I can understand the fascination for collecting ordnance, but having seen Peter's photo I wonder where on earth the average householder would keep this stuff??

I once expressed interest in a de-act Vickers water cooled machine gun complete with tripod. One look at my wife's expression when I tentatively suggested it would go nicely in the corner of our lounge was enough to convince me that it would probably have been safer to have run the guantlet of a real one than face her reaction had I bought it. B)

Tim

PS I have been permitted two 18 lbr shell cases standing each side of the fireplace but they are a pain in the butt to polish!

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One look at my wife's expression when I tentatively suggested it would go nicely in the corner of our lounge was enough to convince me that it would probably have been safer to have run the guantlet of a real one than face her reaction had I bought it

Tim, that sounds like a fantastic idea - far better than the usual 'Changing Rooms' style make-overs, are you sure with a little more convincing she wouldn't come round?

;)

I guess I am lucky that my wife shares my interest in the Great War to some degree, on her desk at work she insists on keeping pens, paperclips etc in three containers - a French 37mm trench art shell case, a British Battye grenade and the cut-off base of a 'whizz-bang'!

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Oh, and as a note to my posting, when I asked the owner if I could take a photo, he said OK as long as he was not in it.

Peter :D

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Looking at the condition of those shells, etc. they were not dug up with the aid of a metal detector in a filed somewhere. Indeed,most of them seem to be complete shells, not what was left after being fired.

If the man bought them legitimately from the army (quite feasible) and had proper import licences, then OK.

Just don't try taking things straight off the battlefields or you'll be in trouble, deep trouble. And might be dead if it explodes - some years ago, some German wives reported their husbands missing after going on a trip to Verdun. The French police were grateful for the information as they had found a site where a very large explosion had taken place and there were a few bits of metal to show that a car had been involved. There was nothing else left. The men had, apparently, helped themselves to some large shells, put them in the boot and then gone over a large bump!..........

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some years ago, some German wives reported their husbands missing after going on a trip to Verdun. The French police were grateful for the information as they had found a site where a very large explosion had taken place and there were a few bits of metal to show that a car had been involved. There was nothing else left. The men had, apparently, helped themselves to some large shells, put them in the boot and then gone over a large bump!..........

I don't want to belittle what was obviously a ghastly and tragic event, particularly for the relatives, but one wonders whether these men were killed by a German shell, and if so, would this be considered an 80 years late blue on blue? :o

Tim

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Hi

what is a blue on blue?

also other stories I have heard tell late in Tommies bar :

a local frenchman who used a stokes mortar to repair his exhaust?

Also another french guy who was collecting scrap off Toffee Apple bombs and was surrounded in erxplosive when he decided to hammere one of the fuzes off. He and his family were blown all over the local village!

Any more stories?

Tony

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The gentleman in the picture is a legitimate seller, the vast majority of his stock is true army surplus.

Kirky, there are lots of stories around; the group who unfourtunately lit a camp fire right over a UXB - boom...the lads in the garage who thought the aid of a blow-torch would loosen the fuse - boom...the old man who used a shell as an anvil for many years, then - boom, etc

If you visit any of the French fairs, take a close look at a couple of the more well known ordanance sellers - the odd limb or piece of hand missing here and there...these blokes learnt the danger of dug up Great War explosives the hard (stupid) way.

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I have read this thread with interest, there seems to be a real miasma of experiences here.

Having lived in France for several years, I have only had good experiences of the French police, and on the one occasion that I had the s**t beaten out of me in Nancy, they couldn't have been more helpful.

I stopped at a cemetery on the Somme two years ago and a Gendarme actually stopped to have a chat. The boot of the car was open and his eyes fell upon the remains of a barbed wire stake that I had found at the edge of a ploughed field. Not only did he ignore it, but he went on for some time about the best ways to place them in the ground!

In Belgium however I have been pulled over almost every time I have been there, (and to this day I am convinced I was not committing any traffic offences, to merit being pulled over) got the b******ng of my life (It really was one good shouting at!) from a Belgian copper for parking in a cycle lane outside Coxyde cemetery, and had a gun waved in my face reaching into my pocket to produce my passport.

Having been a police officer myself, I suppose common sense is the key, don't be smart, don't mouth off, smile and look magnanimous, it's just an awful lot easier in the long run.

As for customs, 1800 fags no problem, one live 18lb shell........well that would be another story. As far as customs go, yes they have a lot of power, yes there are bad apples that give them all a bad name, but no matter how hard they try, they cannot even be close to being as horrible as the Greek police. (Very bad experience once.)

On that note I'm off to polish my metal detector and wipe down my bomb-proof bag for next weeks trip.

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A lot of good info on this thread, but if you intend to bring dodgy stuff back over a border, rather than rely of annecdote and rumour, why not just contact HM Customs before you go ? I don't see why anyone should be afraid to ask them exactly what the rules are, since they, I assume made them......

Slainte, Alan

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If you visit any of the French fairs, take a close look at a couple of the more well known ordanance sellers - the odd limb or piece of hand missing here and there...these blokes learnt the danger of dug up Great War explosives the hard (stupid) way.

One Frenchman I've bought grenades from on a couple of occasions had the lower 1/3 of his right arm missing. After visiting his table I’ve always remarked to my mates that he must do his own recovery work. Ok in poor taste I admit but it always got a laugh.

Does buying inert ordnance make one an enabler? :blink: If it does should one seek help? :unsure:

Jon

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  • 3 weeks later...
:o My worst experience was at Serres when a Gendarme attempted to kiss me on the cheeks, however, as we were both gentlemen of a certain age I doubted his sincerity and commitment.
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This is a very intersting thread , it has all the ingredience ...a bit of agro , some cool story's , and some great imfo .

I would like to add a few from talking to a man in France I came to know over the net .

He was brought up in Perrone and his Dad was actually the Mayor or something near Delville Wood when the South Africa president went there for a visit during the dark days of aparthied . Anyway , he often detects on the battlefields ( he lives in Paris now ) and has a hidden storage area for the detector in the boot of his car .

He told me that he would be prosecuted if it was found . I don't know if there is an uneven policy by the police though . He also has a childhood friend who is a tractor mechanic around Perrone . He often walks with his daughters and picks up a whole room full of finds over time that my Parisian friend has told me about ( without any police intervention ) . Also it must be a law that has different levels , from seeing all the dug items in Pozieres , in the shops and in peoples front yards . As a side note about battlefield items . My friend bought a fully operational Panzerfaust , complete with warhead reasontly !!...I didn't ask any questions ! .

But something I have never asked him , but makes me wonder from using detectors to look for gold . In the battlefields the iron signal returns must be huge from all the foscilised shrapnel and wire . I wonder if they would be much help unless you came across something the size of a tank ?.

Phil

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In the battlefields the iron signal returns must be huge from all the foscilised shrapnel and wire . I wonder if they would be much help unless you came across something the size of a tank

Absolutely, but a decent metal detector will give a different signal for non-ferrous metals. Most of the iron objects are, as you say, shell fragments etc - anything worth recovering will be made of brass, bronze or copper...

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I have no doubt that standards for prosecuting people vary dramatically. I would be surprising if they didn't.

HOWEVER, whether or not the ex-mayor of somewhere collects things with impunity or whether a museum collects things, does not affect the simple fact that anyone using a metal detector or collecting anything from the battlefields is liable to a very heavy fine and possibly imprisonment as well.

The TV news often has a spot on to tell people about this, and they always say that the absolute maixmum fine of around 10,000 euros and a year in prison, are handed down about three times per year.

Go ahead, if you fancy the inside of a French prison, but don't say you weren't warned.

I can't say that I have never taken anything, but the odd shrapnel ball or piece of shrapnel is unlikely to be of interest. Taking shells, rifles or whatever will definitely get you into big trouble.

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I know many of you have read this before but I don't want you in jail in a country where I can make no money defending you! :lol: I have actually seen a man in the Argonne Forest under arrest for this, beware. he had no detector that I saw but was picking things up & boom!

I don't think a bullet or shrapnel ball will do it.

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Guest private, 2nd worch. btn.

hey all,

just a quick response on this thread: I live in Belgium, and am diggin' into flanders soill for allmost 12years now... And I never, ever got any trouble with the police or other law-preserving people.

When I was young and wild (some 5 or 6 years ago)(And now I'm 23), I've brought tons and tons of war debris home... And yes, even live shells, grenades, taubes, ... And I even managed to get a bomb from Livens projector in my backyard. Every time, I' ve called the bombs disposal unit, and told them my story of finding the shells... And boy, what a good laugh they've made out of it.

Now, I'm older and wiser <_< and leaving shells well alone... Reason of this is, that a couple of years ago, I gave a friend of me a hand rebuilding his house. Suddenly I'v heard his shovel scraping on metal. I've started to dig, and a german 77mm shell was found. While picking it up, the fuse just fell of, showing the detonator, and some of the inside of the shell. And since that accident, I've calmed down on the ordnance-thing.

I still dig, but with a good metal detector which gives a different sound when you come on something else than just steel.

I have found lots of equipment, fuses, rifles, bayonets, ... But my most impressive found were a german and a british soldier next to eachother, both died in action. they could now be identefied, and both rest on their own cemetarys now. (And I'm being proud on finding those 2 guys, and being able to help them have a decent grave).

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I know many of you have read this before but I don't want you in jail in a country where I can make no money defending you!

Your making an assumption aren't you? Some of us are particular about who represents us. Rather a French rural brief than a Louisville sharp. :lol:

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just a quick response on this thread: I live in Belgium, and am diggin' into flanders soill for allmost 12years now... And I never, ever got any trouble with the police or other law-preserving people.

private, 2nd worch. btn.

This double standard was mentioned earlier in this thread. It appears to some of us that the local authorities will often look the other way when it's one of their countrymen who is artifact hunting but when they see an outsider doing it they intervene. I personally feel the laws protecting the artifacts of the Great War should be relaxed to allow people to relic hunt freely. :ph34r: Others on this forum do not agree with me on this point and we have discussed this at length on several occasions.

Happy hunting and be careful!

Jon

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I personally feel the laws protecting the artifacts of the Great War should be relaxed to allow people to relic hunt freely.

I strongly disagree. I find the whole thing very distasteful, its tantamount to grave robbing.

Andy

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