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Remembered Today:

1st World War new battalions


JulianB
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I presume that the raising / establishment of new battalions; 2nd and 3rd line TF ones , Service Bns, Garrison Bns etc etc were officially promulgated somewhere. Are they in ACIs or AOs ??. Would I have to plough through the hundreds of such ACIs and AOs at TNA ????

(and the final disbandment of such battalions in 1918/19 )

I'd be grateful for any pointers

thanks

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Correct - they certainly are. I have a boatload of the necessary ACI's, but not all of them and they also deal with Corps formation too. As an example did you know that a 'locally raised battlion' of Liverpool Irish was planned but never came to fruition? It was produced in an ACI and I would have have reproduced it for you, but alas I arrived back in Saudi today after a brilliant three week holiday.

PS

Locked into the archive of the GWF is the Official War Office List of 'Locally Raised Battalions' as taken from ACI's.

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Graham, I thought they might - I just have to book myself into a hotel in Kew for a few weeks I guess !

- or, err, how do I get into the GWF archive !

(I did a 6 month stint in Saudi in the 80s - during many years in near east, out in the middle of nowhere but great archaeology !)

What was the 'locally raised battalion' of Liverpool Irish if not the 8th Bn KLR ???

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The new 'Liverpool Irish' Battalion was to be a 'Pals', probaby based upon something like the 'Tyneside Irish'. The ACI named the proposed raiser of the new unit, but later this was cancelled in a following ACI.

I'll see if I can find this stuff, which I did put on here a few years ago from official sources.

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I found the post concerned but sadly all 16 pages from the War Office have been deleted.

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OK, malesh, but I'm a lot closer to Kew than you are so if you could remember where - I have written down the reference that lists AOs and ACIs SOMEWHERE, if that's where they are.

intrigued by Irish pals !

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Hi

Graham neglected to tell you that those that enlisted for the Liverpool Irish (Pals), when the project fell through were given the option of joining the Tyneside Irish and around 100 men came up to Newcastle and joined the 1st Tyneside Irish.

regards

John

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I found the post concerned but sadly all 16 pages from the War Office have been deleted.

Graham kindly sent copies of these to me some time ago, I'll post them over the weekend or could email them if need be,

Jon

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As usual, when you start researching one thread (and I simply wanted primary sources for listing KLR Bns) you turn up - sorry; have turned up for you - many other [more] interesting avenues.

I'd certainly like to pursue the Irish question - John, perhaps you could email me (do you still have my address ?)

Jay, that would be a great help, thank you v much, I've pm'd you.

Julian

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The Army Orders are at Kew in class WO123.

The formation and composition of the First New Army are given in AO 311 of 1914, as amended by AOs 324 and 382 of the same year. The last of these gives the same details for the Second New Army, and AO 388 of 1914 gives the details for the Third New Army. Look also at AO 389 which gives the intended composition of the Fourth New Army.

A further AO only reached proof stage but if you can find it, is is under reference 20/3557. There may be a copy among either the AOs, or the ACIs in WO293.

Good hunting!

Ron

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Was the raising of ALL battalions subject to ACIs or AOs. I think I've asked this question before with regards the 25th Battalion Royal Fusiliers but can't remember if I ever got an answer :huh: .

If so where would I look for details?

Steve

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Hello Steve

I think the position with the locally raised ("Pals") battalions was that they were formed by towns or local dignitaries, trained and equipped under War Office supervision, and their services were accepted by War Office Letter at the completion of raising and equipping. Something like that would have been necessary, to give authorisation for the War Office to refund the costs of raising.

25/RF would have been an exception anyway, being raised by the Legion of Frontiersmen. The War Office originally refused the Legion's offer to raise a battalion, but later relented.

Ron

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I seem to recall that the new Royal Scots memorial at Contalmaison mentions that 400 of the battalion were from Manchester who had requested the right to form a Manchester Scottish battalion but had been refused.

I wonder if it is mentioned in an ACI?

Sean

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Hello Steve

I think the position with the locally raised ("Pals") battalions was that they were formed by towns or local dignitaries, trained and equipped under War Office supervision, and their services were accepted by War Office Letter at the completion of raising and equipping. Something like that would have been necessary, to give authorisation for the War Office to refund the costs of raising.

25/RF would have been an exception anyway, being raised by the Legion of Frontiersmen. The War Office originally refused the Legion's offer to raise a battalion, but later relented.

Ron

Ron

Thanks for the explanation, I think I understand the process and would assume that some of the other RF battalions, the Stockbrokers, Sportsmen, Bankers etc. would have been covered by the AOs or ACIs as described.

I've always assumed that when the War Office relented and gave permission for the Frontiersmen to form their battalion that some form of AO or ACI must have been issued to cover this approval but this would appear not to be the case?

Regards

Steve

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Thank you all, yes Ron they were the refs for AO and ACI I had, I'll trrawl through them next time I'm at Kew, I'll look up your other suggestions too. Thank you. Still interested / intrigued by Lpl Ir Pals - not specifically listed in what Jay kindly sent me (which he got from Graham)

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