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Remembered Today:

Man enlists Gazette shows TFR, insignia = KLR ? WHY


lansleyd

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To be honest I'm s puzzled as you as to his career path and can only suggest trying to see if his officers service records still exist. In the meantime I don't know if you have this from the LG, but it records he relinquished his commission on the 26th Sept 1919;-

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/ViewPDF.a...t=&similar=

One clue I haven't shared yet on this puzzle.

Lieut R.H.L. Dodgson's file is in the TNA and I have it copied. It's the usual personal papers file without any attestation or other forms. Mostly correspondence about belongings and his illness with his mother.

His period of pay is stated. Two periods are listed, one with transfer from " Gazette", and one with transfer from " Messrs Cox and Co/ 5th Liverpool" in handwriting, 30/5/1916 when he joined the RDC. The military agent I understand, and this is the only reference anywhere to a Battalion.

Yes - I've seen the link and all others in the LG thankyou

Does the ribbon decoration above his left breast pocket mean anything?

D.J.L.

D.J.L.

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Graham,

I am sorry but you are wrong, a lot of territorial officers wore the "T" below their collar badges,but many did not.

P.B.

[/quot

The distinction was part of a TF Officers drss as per Officers Dress Regulations and TF Regulations and from my own collection of over a 1000 NF photographs, where NF(TF) officers are in evidence, especially in 1914/15 the 'T' is in regular wear. However as the War progressed this distinction may have waned.

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  • 9 months later...
The officer on the left of your group photo is wearing the 'Royal Arms' cap and collar badges in bronze and is therefore possibly an officer on the General List.

Officers Listed in the Army List for 2nd and 3rd Line Territorial Bns usually have '2' or '3' beside their names indicating the Line Bn, so wonder why the Kings should be so different?

Brilliant photo by the way and I'm intrigued by the cap badges of those behind the officers as they seem to be the Royal Cypher in a wreath whereas ACI's clearly state it would be the Royal Cypher only.

PS

Territorial officers also wore small broze 'T''s below their collar bdges to denote their Territorial status.

Graham,

Resuscitating this, in light of new thread entitled Information on Rank Sought ( Cadet Major)

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...amp;hl=lansleyd

It looks as if Dodgson was appointed Captain TF Reserve Gen List , 5 July 1915, and led a Supernumerary Company, which , in view of his uniform, was attached to a KLR Regiment/battalion.

Hence Uniform dilemma solved ( fingers crossed)

Looking afresh at the photograph with the goats - Does this Company look more like a SN Coy ( Officers, with most men shown being National Reservists) rather than an RDC Pro Coy ? And do the round badges, looking like Royal Cypher in a wreath, now make sense if this is the case?

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Ah! now I know what those two PM's were about as I was clueless to what was going on. So I'll start with an apology for not replying to them.

He may well have commanded a Supernumary Company in the Kings Regt, but I can tell you that had he done so, all of the men in this photo, if they were National Reservists, which made up the core of these Supernumary Companies, then they would be wearing Kings Regt cap badges. Nor do they appear to be wearing 'Kings' shoulder titles. The only reason I can state this in cofidence is because I have a photo of Northumberland Fusiliers National Reservists in my collection and various notes from ACI's and AO's, which make no mention of badges differing from the TF Battalions to whom they're attached.

Even Infantry Labour and Works Companies were badged to their parent unit and this would also include those Docks Battalions who were Kingsmen.

The only way I can possibly assist further is to have a good scan of this photo e.mailed to me for perusal, to see if there are any other clues.

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Ah! now I know what those two PM's were about as I was clueless to what was going on. So I'll start with an apology for not replying to them.

He may well have commanded a Supernumary Company in the Kings Regt, but I can tell you that had he done so, all of the men in this photo, if they were National Reservists, which made up the core of these Supernumary Companies, then they would be wearing Kings Regt cap badges. Nor do they appear to be wearing 'Kings' shoulder titles. The only reason I can state this in cofidence is because I have a photo of Northumberland Fusiliers National Reservists in my collection and various notes from ACI's and AO's, which make no mention of badges differing from the TF Battalions to whom they're attached.

Even Infantry Labour and Works Companies were badged to their parent unit and this would also include those Docks Battalions who were Kingsmen.

The only way I can possibly assist further is to have a good scan of this photo e.mailed to me for perusal, to see if there are any other clues.

Thanks - It looks as if the Company in the photo is the RDC if what you say is correct - will arrange to send jpeg

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Received the photo via e.mail and this photo was taken during 1918 or later. What you didn't notice was that at least two members in the group and one of the officers are wearing overseas service chevrons. These weren't worn until 1918 and beyond and quite a few also have wound stripes indicating that they've seen prior active service and been wounded.

post-7376-1247405581.jpg

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The shoulder titles and cap badges are still difficult to positively identify, but the shoulder title itself is of a short pattern and not curved as you would expect to see among the infantry, so they're definately not "Kings" regiment. What the letters say is again difficult to determine, but it is short and probably only contains three letters.

post-7376-1247405923.jpg

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The shoulder titles and cap badges are still difficult to positively identify, but the shoulder title itself is of a short pattern and not curved as you would expect to see among the infantry, so they're definately not "Kings" regiment. What the letters say is again difficult to determine, but it is short and probably only contains three letters.

post-7376-1247405923.jpg

The 328 Pro Coy RDC disbanded on 25.9.19. Major Dodgson was guarding a POW camp in Oswestry in the winter of 1918, still I presume in command of 328 Pro Coy.

The wound stripes and overseas markings I had noted but wasn't aware they meant 1918 plus

Thank you for this

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I also noted the wound stripe and single overseas chevron (worn from c Feb 1918 if I remember ? - this has previously been discussed on Forum) worn by the officer on the right (our right) but also a single medal ribbon which does rather look like a 1914 ribbon (?) - which was worn from early 1918 was it not? .. which would suggest that man had been overseas in 1914 - earned ribbon and been wounded and then on home duty ever since .. could that be possible?

david

The 328 Pro Coy RDC disbanded on 25.9.19. Major Dodgson was guarding a POW camp in Oswestry in the winter of 1918, still I presume in command of 328 Pro Coy.

The wound stripes and overseas markings I had noted but wasn't aware they meant 1918 plus

Thank you for this

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I also noted the wound stripe and single overseas chevron (worn from c Feb 1918 if I remember ? - this has previously been discussed on Forum) worn by the officer on the right (our right) but also a single medal ribbon which does rather look like a 1914 ribbon (?) - which was worn from early 1918 was it not? .. which would suggest that man had been overseas in 1914 - earned ribbon and been wounded and then on home duty ever since .. could that be possible?

david

Others on the Medal forum have also commented on the 1914 star ribbon and this would fit with

previous overseas service for the officer on (our) right with KLR badges

This man could not have been Lieut Reginald Dodgson as he had died by the time this photo was taken

David L.

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  • 1 month later...

Is it possible that he had pre-WW1 army service as an officer which would account for him coming in as a captain? He shows no Boer War ribbon but might have served any time between 1902 and 1914, presumably in a TF unit, which would have got him to at least Lt and possibly Capt.

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QUOTE (Phil_B @ Sep 9 2009, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is it possible that he had pre-WW1 army service as an officer which would account for him coming in as a captain? He shows no Boer War ribbon but might have served any time between 1902 and 1914, presumably in a TF unit, which would have got him to at least Lt and possibly Capt.

The chain

documents the research that has been done. After the CLB, it is thought CHL Dodgson ( as a Major with them) went on to

join a Supernumerary Bn of KLR administration wearing their badge and listed in the TF Reserve Gen.List.

The photo of the Lt with the ribbon is now thought not to be RHL Dodgson, who had died by the time the photo was taken ( in or after 1918)

David

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lansleyd said:
The chain

documents the research that has been done. After the CLB, it is thought CHL Dodgson ( as a Major with them) went on to

join a Supernumerary Bn of KLR administration wearing their badge and listed in the TF Reserve Gen.List.

The photo of the Lt with the ribbon is now thought not to be RHL Dodgson, who had died by the time the photo was taken ( in or after 1918)

David

David,

You definitely need to stress that my theory is a hypothesis only and that it needs some further serious research before being any more than that! :huh:

Did you get anywhere with the KLR specialists?

Glad the book's coming on, I'll keep an eye on your blog for further news.

Cheers,

Mark

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David,

You definitely need to stress that my theory is a hypothesis only and that it needs some further serious research before being any more than that! :huh:

Did you get anywhere with the KLR specialists?

Glad the book's coming on, I'll keep an eye on your blog for further news.

Cheers,

Mark

Mark - as yours is the only hypothesis - and reasonable/plausible - and no KLR expert has offered any workable alternative, it stands.

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  • 3 months later...
The 5th kings ( not the 6th) wore blackened cap and collar badges, are you sure the badges are not officers service dress bronze,they may appear black in photos.

The 6th kings wore a bugle horn badge with a Lancaster rose above as a collar badge and a cord boss badge in the officers cap.

Have to disagree with Ken ( sorry) but I have photographs of more Liverpool officers without the"T" below the collar badges,than those wearing the "T"s.

A scan of the photo might give some more clues

P.B.

Hi

You said in your post you have photos of Liverpool Officers? Would it be possible that you had a photograph of my Great Grandfather CSM John Griffin of the 4th Bn of the Kings?

He was killed in action on 11 October 1918. I know this is a long shot, thanks,

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unfortunatly no, I am afraid I cannot help.

Might be worth a search of the newspapers for October/November local to where he lived for an orbituary which often had pictures,if you have not tried that already.

Peter

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