Both Wars, different sides.

[Fat Frank]

I had to collect some documents last night and got speaking to one of the older guys at one of the retirement villages we administer. We got chatting and he related the story of his father to me.

He was German and fought in WW1 on the Western Front and was captured in 1916, spending the rest of the War in captivity. After the War he remained in the UK and was employed by a UK company, eventually working with them at their office in Germany (I suppose for obvious reasons). Apparently he was vehemently opposed to Hitler and was imprisoned in Germany for comments he made.

The UK Company were able get him released and he worked for them until 1935 emigrating to South Africa. At the outbreak of WW2 he wished to join the Commonwealth Forces in South Africa but was denied due to his background. Eventually, towards the end of the war he was able to join the Kommando (similar to the UK home guard, hence the spelling with a “K”)

He was killed in 1944 while on guard duty during a break-in after being struck over the head. He is therefore listed as war dead.

Anyway my question is, was this a common happening, fighting in both World Wars on different sides?

Of course there is the case of Lt Alex “Sandy” Young who fought with the Germans in German SWA, 1904, receiving the Iron Cross, only to join 4th Btn D Coy SAI having won the VC in the Boer War in 1901 (he also won the Legion of Honour just by the way). He publicly burnt the Iron Cross before leaving the UK for duty in France. Not exactly the same but interesting anyway.

[SiegeGunner]

Anyway my question is, was this a common happening, fighting in both World Wars on different sides

Not uncommon, perhaps, if you were Turkish, Italian or Japanese, or from the disputed provinces of France.

I suspect I know of a forum pal who will be along presently with his father's experience in this field. I would be particularly interested to hear of anyone who served with the British/Empire forces in the Great War and with the Germans in WW2.

[George Armstrong Custer]

A well known - because of his memoirs - example of this was Herbert Sulzbach, who fought as a German citizen with the German Army in the Great War, and with the British in the Second World War. He had the best of reasons though - he was Jewish. See a review of his memoir 'With the German Guns' HERE.

ciao,

GAC

[IanA]

Perhaps the most famous example of this is the author of 'With the German Guns', Herbert Sulzbach. He served from 1914, was commissioned by the Kaiser and won the Iron Cross first class. In the second world war he joined the Pioneer Corps as a private and ended his army career as a captain working with German prisonners of war.

Beware - slow typist.....

[themonsstar]

Herbert Sulzbach medals are at the RLC museum Deepcut, well worth a visit.

[Fat Frank]

So far we have 2 and Sandy Young makes 3 although he is slightly different.

I have done a little work on Sandy, Irish born, served with the Cape Police in Boer War and won his VC in 1901. In 1904 was decorated by the Germans during the Herero rebellion. Also served in the 1096 Poll Tax rebellion, the 1914 rebellion which would clear up why he never served in German SWA on that Campaign in 1914 as the Transvaal Scotish did.

His Legion of Honour is a little more questionable. the story (according to a Reuters correspondant) has it that he saw a French Officer "laying under the enemy fire" with a wounded leg. He ran over to him, "under terrific fire" and carried him to saftey. THE OFFICER then took off the Legion of Honour on his tunic HE was wearing and pinned it on Sandy's chest. The only Youngs I can find on my list of receivers is a William Young and a Mark Young. I therefore doubt if he actually offically received the decoration.

Such the pity, it would have made a great story.

[Will O'Brien]

Mannerheim immediately springs to my mind. Served in a Russian Dragoon Regiment in the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-05 & commanded a Russian Cavalry Brigade during the Great War, until the revolution. Commanded the Finnish forces fighting the Russians between 1939-1944.

[centurion]

In 1919 quite a lot of members of the KuK forces found themselves nationals of counties on the other side in WW2 and fought against Germany in forces as distributed as those of Poland, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia (often ending up with units in Britain) whilst others remaining in Austria or Hungary fought on the Axis side. And of course a great many Italians managed to fight on more than one side without even having to change their nationality!

[Fat Frank]

.................a great many Italians managed to fight on more than one side without even having to change their nationality!

[Michael Johnson]

I recall reading of a Canadian presumably Veterans' Guard, who addressed the German prisoners at a Canadian PoW camp, and told them he hoped that they would become Canadians after the war, as he had done - he had been a Great War PoW.