Harrogate (Stonefall) Cemetery - vandalised

[John_Hartley]

This disgusting incident speaks volumes about the lows that the country has sunk to... guided from the top! Its just the tip of the iceberg to the thug culture that the country has become, and promotes both at home, and abroad. An attitude that was given creadence when The Right Honourable Enock Powell was jeared at, cat-called at, and boood from Parliament over his posative stand on regulating immagration.

Oh, for heavens sake, stop being so bloody silly.

I see that you are also an immigrant. A good thing America has liberal immigration laws - you're just the sort of Brit I hope will be able to live out their days elsewhere and not come back here to live near me. We can do without views like yours..

John

[Gunner Bailey]

Hang your head in shame Britain... for even your own government do not use the prefix 'Great' anymore!

A saddened expat!

Hold on Bootnecks. It's not that bad. Most of us live without encountering vandalism and will never hear a gunshot (Is that the same in the US?). Where I live we have no graffiti and are pretty crime free.

The disgusting little oiks who did this are a tiny minority and you cannot equate this to the whole country.

Gunner Bailey

[stripeyman]

It seems to me that it's neither left-wing nor namby-pamby to be concerned about the well-being of seven year old children - indeed, such concerns would seem to mark us as being a touch more civilised than most. After all, seven year olds are under the age of criminal responsibility (a concept introduced before notions of a left-wing) - would it prove that we're better than the third world if we went back a hundred-years or so and deported them to a penal colony or threw them in jail? Or went back even further and burnt them at the stake to teach them the consequences of defiling "Holy" places?

Do you seriously expect the police to ignore the fact that seven year olds are walking about with matches and to concentrate solely on their "crime" - perhaps you believe that seven year old "criminals" deserve all they get?

Cheers-salesie.

Not seven year olds as "they do not know what they do", we are not discussing the punishment of the Middle ages as in your first paragraph but the

general state of lack of respect for anything or anybody.

As a Yorkshire lad in in the 1950's I did have matches on my person at that age.......but I did not set fire to property, we lit fires for our

enjoyment, brewed elderberries with sugar and had FUN. We had freedom, now alas curtailed by the State no doubt for our 'safety'.

In all probability these young kids did not know any better, let us not condem them too harshly, its a short life.

Bob Grundy

[findabetterole]

Oh, for heavens sake, stop being so bloody silly.

We can do without views like yours..

John

Everyone is entitled to their oppinion John.

"Oh, for heavens sake, stop being so bloody silly." But what does one tell the visitos to foreign war cemateries about the British school kids running riot through the gravestones, using the headstones as leapfrog stances, throwing litter wherever they go without regard or respect for anyone?

This is not the first time that this disgusting behavour has been reported upon in the forum. Search back... war memorials defaced in all manner of ways, artifacts from those memorials stolen. Are you one to 'turn a blind eye'? I'll not decimate your charactor with any derogatory remarks, for this is not what this forum is about... to let ones views be known upon a WW1 related subject, but keep within the parameters. I don't wish to spoil this thread for anyone, but I shall say this... behavour of the type by those jouveniles already reported upon, certainly would not have been tollerated in the 50's & 60's, an interesting era which I grew up in.

WW1 vetrans (now sadly refined to the history books) abounded in our Grandparents who had numerous stories of 'daring-do' to tell. The country was proud and showed it. Whats happened?.. its as though those days never existed. Work and success are dirty words. Respect for oneself and others, including their properties have been thrown by the wayside.

Standards John.... Standards! If those above do not have any or care not to uphold what ones they do have... why should anyone else follow their example. Think about it for a few moments. Visit one of the supposed quiet war cemateries in order to let ones mind reflect in quiet solitude... or at least that is what one would like to do. Instead, one finds what this and other threads are reporting/commenting on!.. Lack of Pride, Self respect, Respect for those who have gone before, Lack of or no discapline, Always someone, when individuials comment upon the situation saying: "Oh, for heavens sake, stop being so bloody silly. We can do without views like yours"..

Seph

[keithmroberts]

Bootneck

You seem to assert that the behaviour concerned is being "tolerated". It isn't. Its illegal and if the culprits are detected the law will be applied. Indeed that would have happened in the fifties or sixties also. Having a connection with the administration of justice I can also tell you that the vast majority of young offenders that are identified offend only once; that there is sadly a proportion who continue to offend and who are subjected progressively to increasingly substantial sentences where modest means do not initially succeed. Some few of them unfortunately continue to offend into adult life.

A problem of our society, and we did not have such a yellow press in the great war, or even in the fifties and sixties, is that only bad news is news. No newspaper reports the very many successes that are achieved in dealing with any form of crime. Instead we suffer violent and extreme reporting that is more to do with attention grabbing and circulation, than with the truth.

It seems that the damage done at this cemetery might be irreparable if a unique book of remembrance has indeed been destroyed. That is something that I am sure that we all regret and feel understandable anger about. However if the damage in this case was done by young people below the age of criminal responsibility, then however awful, it is not on a par with some of the other acts of vandalism that have happened in war cemeteries, which have sadly been perpetrated by older and deliberately malicious elements.

I sincerely hope that the offenders are identified - its only if that happens that there is any chance that they can be influenced to lead a more constructive existence in the future.

Keith

[SiegeGunner]

I don't wish to spoil this thread for anyone

Well, I'm afraid you are doing, Seph. As I've said in earlier posts, I have both recent and historical family associations with this cemetery, and I find the true magnitude of this incident distressing enough, without it being used as a pretext for hobby-horsemen to parade their apocalyptic visions yet again.

[John_Hartley]

Seph - Now please stop being so melodramatic. We are talking about two very young children - seemingly several years younger than the age of criminal responsibility. Can you not accept it for what it - a childish prank - and not for some dire indication about the breakdown of society and life as we know it. Surely to do otherwise is just silly.

Keith - I had many years working in the criminal justice before I retired. As you, I see our system generally succeeeding, not failing, in diverting young people from increasingly criminal behaviour.

In terms of this particular incident, I have to say that I doubt if, in 1957 (when I was 7), I would have much appreciation that I was doing anything much wrong by burning some paper. At that age, I hadnt had a close relative die - only a pet rabbit. I think I would probably have been a bit scared to be playing in a cemetery - so some things have changed in the last 50 years.

John

[salesie]

Not seven year olds as "they do not know what they do", we are not discussing the punishment of the Middle ages as in your first paragraph but the

general state of lack of respect for anything or anybody.

As a Yorkshire lad in in the 1950's I did have matches on my person at that age.......but I did not set fire to property, we lit fires for our

enjoyment, brewed elderberries with sugar and had FUN. We had freedom, now alas curtailed by the State no doubt for our 'safety'.

In all probability these young kids did not know any better, let us not condem them too harshly, its a short life.

Bob Grundy

I think you should read my post again, Bob, and then look at your own initial post - you might just get my point then!

Cheers-salesie.