trsp62 Posted 19 August , 2008 Share Posted 19 August , 2008 My GF Sgt William H Price served in the MMP. He has on his uniform in one of the only two pictures I have of him an 'Upturned Spur' Right arm above his stripes. I am informed by a reliable source that... "The Upturned Spur signifies the remount Equitation Course it is the highest equitation course within the Army and it consists of [a] six month training [course]. The ‘Trainee’ has three horses to look after, one fully trained, one saddle broken and one remount (untrained). At the end of the six month course all three horses have to be of a Trained standard, capable of being ridden by any horseman and [to] respond to all commands; walk, trot, canter, gallop, jump over small jumps usually 2-3 ft high and carry the rider through a series of dressage movements. The horseman also has to undertake examinations on all aspects of stable and horse-management recognise ailments, clipping a horse, saddler safety and many more aspects of daily stable routines. Very few are chosen to take this course and of those not all pass the requirements, practical and written examinations." Has anyone got any further info about the course - where it might have been run? Who administered it? How many attendees each year.....? On his left arm he has a crossed rifles badge, presumeably a marksman ship qualification? Can anyone tell me what he would have to have done to get that badge? Tim [PS I am deliberately not posting the whole photo in this thread because there is a 'mystery' about it I would like to explore in a separate thread in due course]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 19 August , 2008 Share Posted 19 August , 2008 Hello, Are you sure it is the Spur Badge and not the Horse Shoe badge? If it is the horse shoe badge, then he is a Shoeing Smith/Farrier. In this case Sergeant Farrier. I think in WW1 the Spur badge means rough rider. I think it was much later that it referred to the riding course. When I was in the army we referred to this as being the Long Course. Only NCO's wore the spur badge. The other badge is the marksman badge. Regards, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trsp62 Posted 19 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 19 August , 2008 Thanks Stewart. Pretty sure he was not a farrier..... mmmm why do I say that? Never heard him claimed to have been a farrier/smith. He was a Military Policeman and all the family anecdotes are about MMP duties. Suppose the MMPs must have had farriers though? Also if "Sgt Farrier" is a rank - then definitely not as I have his Service Summary and rank not annotated as such. Interestingly my late father always said that WHP had a 'rough-riding' qualification, so maybe that's it - a spur badge which my other [RMP] source knows from a later period as the 'Long Course' but which in WW1 was rough-riding? Tim [awaiting with anticipation his full records from ARC.... hopefully all will be revealed!] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 19 August , 2008 Share Posted 19 August , 2008 Hello Tim, The photo you show does look like the Horse shoe badge, but then it could just be the photo. The spur badge has a bit sticking out of the top, usually with a rounded end. It could be that in the photo, the badge is bent or broken, so the light is not reflecting off it, so it can't be seen. Hope the records do answer you question. I think most Mounted units at this time had a farrier section. RFA, RHA, Cav and yeomanry all had them. Don't know about the MMP's though. All the best, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Crame Posted 19 August , 2008 Share Posted 19 August , 2008 Yeah, to my knowledge back then the spur was for a rough rider - a riding instructor. This is my Great Grandfather's badge: He taught Gough's daughter to ride (Horses!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trsp62 Posted 20 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 20 August , 2008 This is my Great Grandfather's badge: mmm and that doesn't look the same as the one in my photo, which just adds to the mystery about it.... will post the full photo soon for everyone to dissect! Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 20 August , 2008 Share Posted 20 August , 2008 Hello Tim, You see what I mean, when I say it looks more like the horse shoe badge, worn by farrier's and Shoe Smiths. The badge that Mark has posted is the Full dress, Mess dress and Patrol uniform pattern. In service dress the badge was either made of Brass or was made of cloth, white on Khaki. Regards, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 20 August , 2008 Share Posted 20 August , 2008 There were TWO shapes of the rough rider badge. The 'rough' in rough rider means 'unbroken/ unbacked horse'. The transition to equestrian instructor is interesting: moves from training the horse to training the victim. I have versions of each in gilding metal, worsted, and gold wire on scarlet and on blue. Illustrations from my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 21 August , 2008 Share Posted 21 August , 2008 I took the trouble to: get my book off the shelf scan the relevant page reduce the scan to appropriate bandwidth for the forum write a reply attach the photo send the post ......................... so I am disappointed in zero reaction. I hope it is because the originator is busy/away etc., and not indifferent to my efforts. Grumpy is grumpy today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trsp62 Posted 21 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 21 August , 2008 I took the trouble to: so I am disappointed in zero reaction. I hope it is because the originator is busy/away etc., and not indifferent to my efforts. Grumpy is grumpy today. not away, just busy at the daytime job : ) Many thanks! Even the alternative not quite same as photo which does have a horseshoe like quality I have to admit, but 'farrier' doesn't ring true. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Crame Posted 21 August , 2008 Share Posted 21 August , 2008 Could be worse Grumpy, there's a forum I often post on that seems to always end with my post on a thread or my posts are ignored. Mind you, I dont know why i post on there anyhow as they're the most obnoxious bunch of cretinous backbiters I've ever met. Not like on here where I've always found people genuinely passionate - I think you were on my first thread (albeit under a different name). Now, i don't think Tim mean any slight so here's a couple more, just occurred to me: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trsp62 Posted 22 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 22 August , 2008 Could be worse Grumpy, there's a forum I often post on that seems to always end with my post on a thread or my posts are ignored. Mind you, I dont know why i post on there anyhow as they're the most obnoxious bunch of cretinous backbiters I've ever met. Not like on here where I've always found people genuinely passionate - I think you were on my first thread (albeit under a different name). Now, i don't think Tim mean any slight so here's a couple more, just occurred to me:] Oh the temptation not to reply..... no, no not really! Thank you also Mark. All comments, ideas pics gratefully recieved. At the weekend when I get a bit of time will post the full pic and larger question I have other than re just these two badges. Rgds, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 22 August , 2008 Share Posted 22 August , 2008 grumpy is appeased .... as far as Grumpy ever is appeased, that is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trsp62 Posted 24 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 24 August , 2008 grumpy is appeased .... as far as Grumpy ever is appeased, that is! I have now posted the full pic here: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...howtopic=104574 (and a short novel to accompany it!). Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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