Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Private Arthur Hayward


Jayenn

Recommended Posts

I am hoping to find out more about how a Canadian soldier died in WW1. I seem to have a great deal of information but it doesn’t seem to lead anywhere.

The man’s name was Arthur Charles HAYWARD, who was born, and lived until sometime before the war, in Sussex, England. He emigrated to Canada where he joined the army - but when and where he joined I don’t know.

The only information I have comes from two memorials:

The first, in the local church, is inscribed, “Arthur Charles Hayward, 16th Battalion Canadian Scottish. Died of wounds, in action near Ypres, Flanders, April 23rd, 1915 St Georges Day, aged 32. Buried at the military cemetery at Poperinghe, Flanders”.

The second, from the CWGC website, says, “Private Arthur Charles Hayward, 51231, No. 4 Coy. 16th Bn., Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment) who died age 32 on 23 April 1915. Son of Richard William Hayward, of The Mount, Hooe, Battle, Sussex, England. Remembered with honour Poperinghe Old Military Cemetery”

A local newspaper at the time, in a list of those who had lost their lives, reported, “Arthur Hayward, Canadian Regiment (killed at Hill 60)”

This is all I have and looks, to me, like a lot of information but, however, I still can’t seem to get anywhere with it. It’s mainly due to my lack of knowledge on military matters.

I’ve been to the “Long, Long Trail”, “The Regimental Warpath”, “Library and Archives Canada” and many other linked websites. I’ve searched this forum and found some questions and answers which are very interesting but don’t seem to help me.

I found the 22nd and 23rd of April, 1915, War Diaries of the 16th Battalion on the “Library and Archives Canada” but they don’t mention Hill 60, so I can only assume that this has nothing to do with the “Manitoba Regiment” or Private Hayward.

Sorry about the long question but I’d be very grateful for any help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This may help

http

://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databas...;id_nbr=452949

Would this man have come over in the first contingent?

Neil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I found the 22nd and 23rd of April, 1915, War Diaries of the 16th Battalion on the "Library and Archives Canada" but they don't mention Hill 60, so I can only assume that this has nothing to do with the "Manitoba Regiment" or Private Hayward.

Where does it say the battalion was on these days? You will need to be sure that he was indeed in this battalion (and had not been transferred earlier). If you are sure that he was in the 16th Bn then the war diary will give you the locations where he would have been at this time. If it is other than Hill 60 then that particular snippit of info would most likley have been incorrect. But first you need to be sure that was his battalion when he was killed.

Ian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It may be worth you contacting the Forum's Canadian cousins at the CEF Research Group..

If that fails, you will need to obtain his service file from Ottawa to confirm exactly what unit he was with. From memory, this costs around $30CDN. You'll then be able to look up the war diary on-line through the Canadian Archives website.

That said, a good bet will be on him actually being with the 16th (and the refernce to Hill 60 being wrong). I base this on the local & CWGC record and the casualty loss on that day as given by ShropshireMad.

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don’t know what happened but I’ve sent four posts in reply to the four sent to me but they’ve never turned up! Just want you all to know that I haven’t ignored your answers! Anyway, I’ll try again!

In answer to Ian Turner, the War Diaries say that, on the 22nd April, the 16th Battalion was at Ypres, at HQ (or, at least, the writer was!). He does say that Ypres was being shelled so all people belonging to the Regiment was ordered “to go out among the inhabitants” - then later they went to woods near St. Julien where they remained on the on 23rd. St, Julien is about 3 miles north-east of Ypres and Hill 60 about the same south-east. So, the 16th Battalion was not at Hill 60, which is why I haven’t been able to find any mention of it there.

It seems very likely that the newspaper made a mistake and Private Hayward wasn’t killed on Hill 60 but elsewhere. Two memorials say he was in the 16th Battalion so he might well have been – but, again, he might not have been on that day (23rd April).

My thanks to Neil for the first address (and the Attestation Form – that was brilliant!) however, the second address didn’t work so could you, please, send it again? In answer to your question, I have no idea as to whether he was in the first contingent or not – all I have is what I sent.

Thanks, John Hartley, for your information – I haven’t contacted the CEF Research Group yet but will do so as soon as I can.

I hope that’s answered all your questions and I shall try again to send this!

Jayenn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jayenn,

I have the memorial plaque of Arthur Charles Hayward and have done some research on him and think I can help you.

He is mentioned in de Ruvigny's roll of honour which provides some useful background information.

HAYWARD, ARTHUR CHARLES. Private, No 51231. 16th Battn. (Canadian Scottish), Canadian Expeditionary Force, s of Richard William Hayward, of The Mount, Hooe, Battle County Sussex, Mercantile Clerk, by his first wife. Susannah, dau. of Joseph Bleak; b The Mount, Hooe, 29 Oct. 1882; educ. Castle Gate School, Lewes; and went to Canada in 1904. He had always had a strong desire for a military career, and had been a member of a voluntary corps both in England and Canada. On the outbreak of war he threw up his post of ranch manager in California, proceeding to Victoria B.C, where he enlisted with the Victoria Fusiliers, and was one of a draft from that regt. despatched to England to reinforce Princess Patricia's LI but on arrival on Salisbury Plain was attached to the 16th Battn. Canadian Scottish. He took part in their historic action in the wood near Ypres for recovery of the French guns on the night of 22-23 April, 1915, receving his mortal wound immediately after that action, in which he had borne a gallant part. He was buried in the new military cemetery at Poperinghe. There is also a small picture in uniform.

His attestation papers run to ten sheets but are a little confused, and not as extensive as some I've seen.

On his headstone in addition to the usual details, there is simply Pro Patria requested by his family. As for the details of his wounds although not recorded on the on-line database, the cemetery register details Died of Wounds (Gas). So one of the first victims of the war due to this new weapon used for the first time 22/04/1915.

I hope this helps with your research.

Regards,

Spud

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jayenn,

I have the memorial plaque of Arthur Charles Hayward and have done some research on him and think I can help you.

He is mentioned in de Ruvigny's roll of honour which provides some useful background information.

<snip>.

I hope this helps with your research.

Regards,

Spud

Spud! That's brilliant! It quite took my breath away! What a mass of information! I can't wait to take it all in!

Can I ask one question? Could you tell me, if you don't mind, how you found all this information, please? Who or what, for instance, is "de Ruvigny's roll of honour - I've never heard of it"? I'd like to know in case I come across a similar problem with someone else (I'm researching m,any men on a local Church Memorial Plaque), and this roll of honour may help me. How did you find out about his wounds being from gas?

It appears that Private died from a gas attack and the first gas attack, so I've been told, was in the 2nd Ypres Battle (22 April - 24 May 1915) where the 16th Battalion was. So, it seems definite that the newspaper was wrong (well, there's a surprise!).

I am so pleased with what you've found - I can't thank you enough - and the same to all who helped me.

I've just come home, with my wife (I thought I'd bring her home too - someone's got to do the cooking and the cleaning!) after a night at the theatre, thinking I'm so tired I'll go to bed early. No chance! I shall be up for a few hours yet.

Thanks very, very much again. Brilliant!

Jayenn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jayenn,

No problem, I'm glad this was of help.

The information comes from a number of different sources. To try and answer your questions.

de Ruvigny's roll of honour is a series of books which were published after the war end. I believe the details were provided by the mens families and I think a fee was paid to be included. Information included varies, but the vast majority of men killed are not mentioned. The chances of finding a mention are slim. The books have been reprinted but are quite expensive, but I and I'm sure others can help with a look up.

I've visited his grave, so saw the epitaph on his headstone. In the cemeteries there are registers which provide a record of the men buried there. This information is usually as per the on-line CWGC database, however, occasionally there are additional details - in this case Died of wounds - Gas.

The attestation papers mentioned were provided via the Canadian Archives who provide an excellent service (The front sheet is on-line but there are other sheets not on-line which they will copy and post for a fee).

Unfortunately the photographs I have are all pre-digital and I don't have a scanner, but if you want a copy of anything in particular drop me a line and I'll see what I can do. I should also be able to take a picture of his memorial plaque if of interest.

Best wishes,

Spud

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jayenn,

No problem, I'm glad this was of help.

<snip>

Best wishes,

Spud

Thanks Spud!

I don’t think I’ve ever used so many exclamation marks in my life! But my reply to you deserved every one! And I’m still doing it!

In explanation, I’m writing the history of a village in East Sussex (for my first website) and am trying to put together the story of a number of men (15 in all) who died in WW1, which is why I asked the question. If it wouldn’t be any trouble, I’d like to send you the names of all of them, just to see what you can find out about each one – if you’d rather I didn’t, I’ll understand – it’s a lot to ask

I asked about these 15 men roughly a year ago and got a good number of useful replies but you never know when someone new may come along with more datawhich is why I asked about Private Hayward..

Regarding the photos, I would love to have some but could you tell me what you have? The one in uniform would be the best for my purposes, I suppose but, if you could easily get one of the plaque, I would appreciate that as well. If this is a problem in any way then, please, forget I asked.

You said you had visited his grave, but, according to CWGC, he’s buried in Poperinghe Old Military Cemetery, so, do you live near that?

I apologise for some many questions and requests but I am so thrilled with what you’ve found already that I’ getting carried away!

Thanks again, very much, very much indeed! (Yet another exclamation mark!)

Jayenn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Jayenn

Sorry about the link. You'll have to enter the search details i'm affraid

http://www.hut-six.co.uk/cgi-bin/search2.php

Neil

Thanks for coming back to me, Neil. I've tried the site but, as I've found before, he only takes you to the CWGC website and I don't know why he does that. I'm sorry if I seem ungrateful - I assure you, I'm not but I've been to his site before, several times, and each time was disappointed in that I ended up at the CWGC website where I'd already been. There are other areas on his website, which look interesting but don't at the moment concern me.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to let me know!

Jayenn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yet another question, re: Arthur Charles Hayward (or, can anyone advise, should I make this a new, separate question, please?). Anyway, on his attestation form, Arthur, says that, at the time of his enlistment, he was in the 88th V.F. Well, I’ve assumed that this probably stands for “ 88th Victoria Fusiliers” or something similar but does anyone know for certain?

Later on, when asked about his Military experience, what is written down appears to be:

3 years - 2nd Sussex V.A. – Could this be Vancouver Artillery (if there was such a thing?) or something else. I can’t find anything in Sussex, England, like that. I wouldn’t think that it’s “Virginia”

2 years - 12th Manitoba Dragoons. I have found something on the Internet about these and I’m happy with what I’ve read.

6 months R.C.M.R. I’d like to know what the letters stand for - could they stand for “Royal Canadian Mounted Reserve” or “Military” or “Rifles”? Once again, can anyone help with this?

I’d love to know more about what these were but having searched the Internet I have found nothing to convince me in any direction concerning the first and last.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...