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Gunner Bailey

SRD Jars - Who made them?

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Gunner Bailey
Have an SRD jar with an ink stamp under the glaze - Wm. Buchan , Midlothian & other unreadable words .

Have a half gallon one in the shed , will check it tomorrow .

Chris

Thanks Chris, appreciated.

Gunner Bailey

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Willywombat
Pearson are the most common maker but 1/2 jars are rare. Nice one.

GB

Sorry - I've misled you! Mine is a run-of-the-mill one gallon.

(I misread a previous post and thought the standard size was one-and-a-half gallons, and then you misread my "1 1/2"!!)

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auchonvillerssomme

As a general history, the jars continued to be used to store rum until at least 1955.

Taken from 'The Malayan Experience'

The depot supplied the units in North Malaya with food, petrol oil and lubricants (POL). This was mainly, dry rations, fresh meat, vegetables and fresh bread. There was also a “bonded” store for rum. This rum was kept in large stone jars, marked SRD, in a wicker & straw crates. The rum was over 100% proof. Strangely, I never heard of it “evaporation” or leaking – although it possibly did. This was for issue to Jungle Patrols – especially Gurkhas, who are very fond of rum.

Mick

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auchonvillerssomme

While looking for the 1941 jar i came across this one, so either my memory is playing tricks or I have 2 WW2 dated SRD jars.

That being said, I have no evidence they are dates, but I'm fairly certain they would be.

And yes i do have quite a few.

Mick

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Gunner Bailey
While looking for the 1941 jar i came across this one, so either my memory is playing tricks or I have 2 WW2 dated SRD jars.

That being said, I have no evidence they are dates, but I'm fairly certain they would be.

And yes i do have quite a few.

Mick

Thanks Mick

That's the first confirmed WW2 SRD I've seen. Most seem to be undated, thought I have one dated 1917.

Cheers

John

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Torrey McLean

Hello, GB -

I checked my collection and found the following:

1. 1/2 gal. jug with impressed "S.R.D." and impressed "SKEY/TAMWORTH" manufacturer marking

2. 1/2 gal. jug with impressed "S.R.D." and impressed "F. BRA(Y)NE & CO./LIMITED/LONDON E" manufacturer marking (I'm not positive about the "Y", but I think that is correct)

3. 1 gal. jug with impressed "S.R.D." and impressed, "SKEY/TAMWORTH" manufacturer marking

4. 1 gal. jug with "S.R.D." printed under glaze and "E. POTTER/WHITTINGTON MOOR/NR. CHESTERFIELD" manufacturer marking ink-stamped on bottom

All of these jugs were acquired on the Somme. Number 2 was actually dug up on the Somme.

I have two other 1-gal. "S.R.D." jugs, both with printed "S.R.D." markings under the glaze, that do not have any manufacturers' markings - the most commonly-encountered type. One is from the Ypres area and the other was actually dug up on the Somme.

All six of my "S.R.D." jugs have the typical two-tone markings. I hope eventually to obtain one with the more unusual reddish-brown colored body.

Due to where I got them, I'm pretty sure that all my "S.R.D." jugs were used during WWI; however, if anyone finds that any of the manufacturers that I listed above were not in business prior to the Armistice I would appreciate the information.

I also have a couple of British marmalade jars from the Western Front, but that's another subject altogether.

I'll be very interested in your comprehensive list.

Regards, Torrey

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Gunner Bailey

Hi Torrey

Thanks for your information. I agree that these are all WW1 vintage.

Here's a photo of the six I have at home in the UK. One of them is a Tamworth made SRD but not SKEY. The iressed mark on the base is un even and I can only make out some unreadable letters ending Ltd with Tamworth underneath.

Gunner Bailey

Here's also the dated mark.

GB

post-8629-1218199622.jpg

post-8629-1218199730.jpg

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Gunner Bailey
Small jar, Doulton?

Yes Doulton Lambeth - Nice handle too.

Gunner Bailey

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Andrew Upton
That's the first confirmed WW2 SRD I've seen. Most seem to be undated, thought I have one dated 1917.

Curious, I always seem to come across WW2 dated ones! Only ever bought two though - a 1944 and a 1945 dated one.

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Gunner Bailey
Curious, I always seem to come across WW2 dated ones! Only ever bought two though - a 1944 and a 1945 dated one.

Andrew

Who are the makers? You also seem to confirm, like Mick that the WW2 jars were all dated whereas the majority of WW1 jars are not.

Gunner Bailey

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auchonvillerssomme

Something else has come to me while looking at these, the ink on the WW2 stamped one looks different to that on the WW1 samples.

I have seen a 2 gallon one but never had the opportunity to purchase.

Mick

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sotonmate

GB and all

Just had a read of this thread and it took me back to the 1960s when I was in a Naval Victualling Yard,and in charge of blending and packing Navy Rum. If you expect me to say where the jars were made,and if they were a continuation of those supplies from WW1 I couldn't say,they were always encased in a wickerwork basket,and re-used time after time. This after a jet wash,basket and all ! They were 1 gallon capacity,we only did that size in jars,the rum inside was a blend of Trinidad&Jamaica (dark) (65%), Barbados (golden) (30%) South Africa and Australian (golden) (5%), and water to bring it down to "Issue Strength". On average the "overproof" rum used in the blend was around 150 (proof spirit (viz 100% alcohol in today's measure) was defined as 174 degrees) and a bit lively to sip,never mind gulp ! The packing strength for a jar was 1 degree stronger than it was in a cask,96.5 degrees for jar and 95.5 degrees for a cask. So it need to be watered down,it wasn't SRD (Service Rum Diluted) ! I believe that a gallon of water was added before issue to junior ratings,but that it was issued as was to Senior Rates.

Hope you enjoyed this educational piece ! There must be a few of you guys who have drunk my blends,from which I had already removed certain biological specimens who had snuggled up inside an empty barrel for a snooze,just before it was filled with overproof rum in far off lands ! Snakes,cockroaches,frogs, assorted other bugs,all of which were in perfect preservation and continued to be long after I had moved on.

Cheers ? Never touch the stuff.

Sotonmate

PS No truth in the rumour that one of my men drowned in the rum mixing vat,and that he climbed out twice for a wee.

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Gunner Bailey
GB and all

Just had a read of this thread and it took me back to the 1960s when I was in a Naval Victualling Yard,and in charge of blending and packing Navy Rum. If you expect me to say where the jars were made,and if they were a continuation of those supplies from WW1 I couldn't say,they were always encased in a wickerwork basket,and re-used time after time. They were 1 gallon capacity,we only did that size in jars,the rum inside was a blend of Trinidad&Jamaica (dark) (65%), Barbados (golden) (30%) South Africa and Australian (golden) (5%), and water to bring it down to "Issue Strength". On average the "overproof" rum used in the blend was around 150 (proof spirit (viz 100% alcohol in today's measure) was defined as 174 degrees) and a bit lively to sip,never mind gulp ! The packing strength for a jar was 1 degree stronger than it was in a cask,96.5 degrees for jar and 95.5 degrees for a cask. So it need to be watered down,it wasn't SRD (Service Rum Diluted) ! I believe that a gallon of water was added before issue to junior ratings,but that it was issued as was to Senior Rates.

Hope you enjoyed this educational piece ! There must be a few of you guys who have drunk my blends,from which I had already removed certain biological specimens who had snuggled up inside an empty barrel for a snooze,just before it was filled with overprrof rum in far off lands ! Snakes,cockroaches,frogs, assorted other bugs,all of which were in perfect preservation and continued to be long after I had moved on.

Cheers ? Never touch the stuff.

Sotonmate

PS No truth in the rumour that one of my men drowned in the rum mixing vat,and that he climbed out twice for a wee.

Sotonmate

Very many thanks for your input. A true revalation to me and I'm sure many others. I just assumed it was strong rum without mixing. Was this mix special to the Navy or did the Army use this when they had a rum ration (when did that stop?)

You must have been a popular man in that job. ;)

Gunner Bailey

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Jack Sheldon

You might have been responsible for a batch of the stuff belonging to the Royal Navy which turned up, long forgotten, in a store somewhere in Germany in the 1990s when troop reductions meant a withdrawal from a large number of locations. For some strange reason the Army passed it back to the Navy and it was sold. I only heard about it via a friend who was still a jolly jack tar at the time. I asked him to try and get me some, but he told me it was so scarce that a lottery was being organised; holders of winning tickets being permitted to purchase one pint!

Jack

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sotonmate

GB

As far as I know it only went to RN units,with the occasional batch for British Antarctic Survey to see them through the Winter down south. The RN got it's rum through a special deal with the then Colonies,for a ridiculous sum of pence per gallon. The smell in my stores was heavenly,though I didn't take it myself,the smell clung to my clothes all day long. In today's climate I would have been breathalised whenver a PC got a whiff,but then I only rode a bike to work !!

As for when it stopped,it must have been around the 1970s,I had gone to pastures new by then. I know they were talking about it's demise at the end of the 1960s,as I believe the cheap rum supply days were coming to a close.

Sotonmate

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sotonmate

Jack

The jars had a red wax seal on the cork which had a Crown ,the Depot packed in,and the pack month/year. The rum in Germany could well have been quite old,I can't think of any (legitimate) reason why it would be there,maybe as a standby storage for emergency needs,or it had found it's way from an unseen corner of a freighter/transport aircraft into safe keeping !

Sotonmate

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auchonvillerssomme

This is a very informative thread. My own evidence for the SRD being the Supply Reserve Depot is several mentions in the London Gazette, one of which is this:

Mick

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sotonmate

Mick

I have no evidence that SRD is to do with the strength of the contents,there is no intention to conflict on the meaning,your evidence is probably more compelling,a bit like the returnable vessel (if it was) being marked with who owns it. There is also a logic in it being a content abbreviation,this maybe to deflect attention from the contents of the jar. I remember my first few weeks in this Victualling Depot contending with Naval clothing etc boxes labelled only with code letters,viz. C = Overalls blue !

Your Deptford address could well have tied in with the possible fact that Army rum was packed at that time by the RN Victualling Depot (Royal Victoria Yard) at Deptford,which was certainly in operation up top the end of the 1960s.

Sotonmate

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Torrey McLean
This is a very informative thread. My own evidence for the SRD being the Supply Reserve Depot is several mentions in the London Gazette, one of which is this:

Mick

Hello, Mick - This is yet another confirmation that "S.R.D." stood for "Supply Reserve Depot" and not any of the other commonly-believed meanings! Would you please provide the exact date of this citation in the London Gazette? Thanks! Regards, Torrey

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auchonvillerssomme

There are quite a few, gnerally referencing awards.

Go to search page and type in supply reserve depot.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/AdvancedS...y+Reserve+Depot

The other evidence which I can't lay my hands on but I think Max will know because I recall he has also made a reference to it previously, was an early advertisement for a gevernment surplus sale.

Mick

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Gunner Bailey
There are quite a few, gnerally referencing awards.

Go to search page and type in supply reserve depot.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/AdvancedS...y+Reserve+Depot

The other evidence which I can't lay my hands on but I think Max will know because I recall he has also made a reference to it previously, was an early advertisement for a gevernment surplus sale.

Mick

Mick

Thanks for adding this into the thread. Always good to get the detail right.

John

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Max Poilu

There was a previous discussion where there was SRD (Supply Reserve Depot) proof (by Joe S' IIRC). Something to do with tags on the jars from Woolwich - cannot find it at the moment but I printed it out last month for Patrick (the Belgian) at War and Peace - all his jars were marked up as 'Service Ration Department'...

As an aside, John at the Shell Hole in Ypres once told me that Brian Murphy (George and Mildred et al) - an avid 14-18 collector payed a large sum for a sealed and filled rum jar at auction that was proven by syringing out some contents...

[edit] - Mick, below is that topic. Photojerk, the host for all the pics is kaput though... :rolleyes:

Army Surplus for sale in 1919, They don't have sales like this anymore...

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Max Poilu

Here is the missing scan for SRD:

sr14.jpg

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auchonvillerssomme

We may well have the answer, you heard it on the forum first.

Mick

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