Gunner Bailey Posted 25 October , 2010 Author Share Posted 25 October , 2010 Hi John Yes, the SRD stamp on your Fulham jar is similar but so are the ink stamps on various makes, and the glazing is different, so I don't think my unmarked jar is a Fulham. Paul Paul the only one in my collection that has a font close to yours is the Fulham. Most impressed marks are fairly unique to a maker. Fulham glazing was inconsistent if my example is representative. I think I'd put my money on it being Fulham. If I find anything different I'll let you know. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Battalion Posted 17 November , 2010 Share Posted 17 November , 2010 Paul the only one in my collection that has a font close to yours is the Fulham. Most impressed marks are fairly unique to a maker. Fulham glazing was inconsistent if my example is representative. I think I'd put my money on it being Fulham. If I find anything different I'll let you know. John John, I'm now thinking that my impressed SRD jar might be an unmarked Bateson's as I've seen pictures of a couple of these and the SRD mark looks very similar, and also the glazing, with the brown under the putty colour is the same. Also, it is the only one of my SRD's that has crazed glazing, compare it to Cnock's Bateson's jar with the handle on page 5 of the thread. What do you think? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 17 November , 2010 Author Share Posted 17 November , 2010 John, I'm now thinking that my impressed SRD jar might be an unmarked Bateson's as I've seen pictures of a couple of these and the SRD mark looks very similar, and also the glazing, with the brown under the putty colour is the same. Also, it is the only one of my SRD's that has crazed glazing, compare it to Cnock's Bateson's jar with the handle on page 5 of the thread. What do you think? Paul Hi Paul I've not got a Bateson's but have seen examples. They normally have a good clear mark on the side near the base, stating 'Bateson's 1914', which was the year the company was formed, not the date of the jar. I'll have a look at some photos I've got to see if the SRD letter look similar. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Battalion Posted 17 November , 2010 Share Posted 17 November , 2010 Hi Paul I've not got a Bateson's but have seen examples. They normally have a good clear mark on the side near the base, stating 'Bateson's 1914', which was the year the company was formed, not the date of the jar. I'll have a look at some photos I've got to see if the SRD letter look similar. John John, this photo would indicate that it is the year of manufacture on Bateson's jars, not the year the company started? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 17 November , 2010 Author Share Posted 17 November , 2010 John, this photo would indicate that it is the year of manufacture on Bateson's jars, not the year the company started? Yes I have seen that before, but none after that date. It may be the only instance of a dated WW1 jar but I'm not convinced. Batesons were a volatile company and merged changed status a lot. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 18 November , 2010 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2010 Paul I've looked at the photo of the Bateson's jar and the lettering is impressed but is different, with slightly thinner letters and the positioning of the letters on the jar is also different, quite high and tight to the neck. Many of their jars also had handles. (Reference French Militaria Magazine N0 278 September 2008) Jury is still out. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Battalion Posted 18 November , 2010 Share Posted 18 November , 2010 John; I thought the same about the impressed lettering on the Fulham jar, so I guess we'll never know for sure? Is there any consensus on whether the impressed jars pre-date the ink stamped ones? I'm wondering if the WD decided that the larger ink stamped letters with the greater contrast are easier to see? After seeing them on that French site, my "grail" SRD jar is one of the dark brown "chestnut" jars. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 19 November , 2010 Share Posted 19 November , 2010 They have a dark coloured one in the antiquities shop in Bapaume, being the type of shop it is they are 4 or 5 times the price I would pay though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 19 November , 2010 Author Share Posted 19 November , 2010 John; I thought the same about the impressed lettering on the Fulham jar, so I guess we'll never know for sure? Is there any consensus on whether the impressed jars pre-date the ink stamped ones? I'm wondering if the WD decided that the larger ink stamped letters with the greater contrast are easier to see? After seeing them on that French site, my "grail" SRD jar is one of the dark brown "chestnut" jars. Paul Hi Paul There is no date difference between the two types so SRD Marking. It was completely down to how the manufacturer wanted to do it. I would have thought the impressed mark would have been cheaper to do. Impressed marks seem to be confined to the WW1 period. I don't think I can recall an impressed WW2 jar. Good luck with the hunt for the dark brown one. I'm in France again in early December so will keep a look out for one (or two). John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Battalion Posted 22 November , 2010 Share Posted 22 November , 2010 Does this makers stamp look familiar to anyone? It is the typical poorly applied and smudged stamp and it's about 40mm wide and 25mm high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 28 November , 2010 Author Share Posted 28 November , 2010 Barker - Chesterfield would be my nominee. The middle line may be smudged but the top and bottom are close to Barker's. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Nixon Posted 30 November , 2010 Share Posted 30 November , 2010 A bit late on this fascinating thread, but here are my two contributions. The jar with the handle has no discernible markings that I could see. Actually looking for a good home for these two at the moment. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Battalion Posted 30 November , 2010 Share Posted 30 November , 2010 Hi Paul They are interesting; you don't see too many with the carrying handles, and that is the earliest Pearson's jar I've seen with impressed SRD and makers stamp; all the ones I've previously seen have ink stamped SRD and makers marks. The unmarked one with the handle does look very similar to my Price Bristol jar with the two tone top colouring. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 30 November , 2010 Author Share Posted 30 November , 2010 Yes, nice jars Paul I would say that Pearsons is pre WW1, probably sometime between 1895 and 1914. I've never seen a Pearson's stamp impressed so would guess it was before production increased for WW1. A rare one. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Nixon Posted 30 November , 2010 Share Posted 30 November , 2010 Paul and John, thanks for the additional information on these two. I must say, I'd not seen any of the impressed SRD initials before either. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 1 December , 2010 Author Share Posted 1 December , 2010 Paul and John, thanks for the additional information on these two. I must say, I'd not seen any of the impressed SRD initials before either. Paul Paul Impressed SRD letters and stamps are not rare but they are for Pearson. Pearson maker stamps are also notorious for being unclear, incomplete or smudged. They were certainly the biggest contractor for these jars as evidenced by them being the most common. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Battalion Posted 11 January , 2011 Share Posted 11 January , 2011 This may be of interest for the SRD collectors out there: just sold on eBay, a sealed 1gal SRD jar manufactured by Caledonia; sadly, it was empty due to a crack in the base. It sold for £32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Battalion Posted 20 January , 2011 Share Posted 20 January , 2011 Update on my previous post; I had bid on the jar but didn't win; a couple of days later though, I got a "Second Chance" offer from the seller as the winning bidder was in Canada and didn't want to pay shipping costs at almost double the selling price. So, I am now the new owner, here's a more detailed image of the seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 28 January , 2011 Share Posted 28 January , 2011 Are SRD jars rare in Enfield because thats far to much to pay and I think that is a made up piece, a lump of sealing wax over a cork impressed with a General Service button. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Battalion Posted 28 January , 2011 Share Posted 28 January , 2011 Are SRD jars rare in Enfield because thats far to much to pay and I think that is a made up piece, a lump of sealing wax over a cork impressed with a General Service button. Mick Hi Mick You are quite likely correct, but having never seen a picture of an original seal in a WW1 jar, I was prepared to risk the cost of 1/4 of a tank of petrol and bid on it, and if you are correct, I've got one jar for the price of two. If it is a fake, have you seen anything similar before? The seller has a 100% on 82 feedback ratings, but only since Oct 2010: the jar was supposedly bought by him in Belgium; perhaps we'll start to see more of them turning up on Ebay, then I'll know for sure. Interestingly, there are not alot of SRD jars to be found on the internet in the UK, other than Ebay, so from my perspective here in Enfield, they are rare. Perhaps GB will confirm your opinion, but he doesn't seem to have been around recently? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 30 January , 2011 Share Posted 30 January , 2011 I haven't sen GB for a while either, but I haven't been round much recently. Your experience with SRD jars in Enfield is a bit like mine in Yorkshire with leather GS buttons, evidently common everywhere else but I never see any here. It probably isn't signifacant where the seller originally bought this SRD because there is certainly trade backwards and forwards across the channel. In my opinion whoever placed the seal was attempting to deceive. And that obviously fooled the seller otherwise he would be selling as is, caveat emptor. One other tip when buying SRD jars especially unusual variations, lick your thumb and rub it hard over the SRD lettering, if you get anything other than the collected grime of years then put it down. I don't have anything other than a suspicion but..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Battalion Posted 30 January , 2011 Share Posted 30 January , 2011 Hi Mick Thanks for tips, I already have a few other jars so I won't be buying anymore, and even if the seal is a fake, the jar is a good condition Caledonia made one, so never mind. I have sent an email with a picture of the seal to the IWM and asked if they can give an opinion based on the example they have in their collection, and if possible to send me a picture of the seal on their jar, so hopefully we will get to see a picture of a genuine one. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 31 January , 2011 Share Posted 31 January , 2011 18B The applier of the seal was either in a big rush (maybe to get home in time for dinner in 1916 or so) or just joined the workforce,or have just used something like a brass button to impress the wax. Having been present when RN rum jars were sealed there is a timing required in order to get a perfect impression. Impress too early (and you get home in time for dinner)and it gets like your pics,too late and not much appears as the wax is already too cool. Just right and you get a clear stamp. The process we used was a small hand-held wax melter with a thumb lever which was depressed on the cork,a small amount of wax deposited and the impresser,one pace and about three jars behind, would do his thing. The first two reasons should still have had something like a Depot ID number beneath the emblem.I am pretty sure that the habits used in my day came from earlier times,when the packing depot would have been required to be indentified. Just imagine if suddenly a seam of water-filled jars appeared at the Front,and the inebriated staff in the Depot were having another round,and a rendition of Long Way to Tipperary ! The tool used to do this in my time was a brass seal which sat on the end of a short hand held stamp. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Battalion Posted 31 January , 2011 Share Posted 31 January , 2011 Sotonmate I gather from what you've written above, that you believe the seal to be genuine? Good to know that I might not have bought a jar with a faked seal after all! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 1 February , 2011 Share Posted 1 February , 2011 Then I stand corrected and bow to Sotonmates experience, as a rum jar filler he should know and I'm sure he will sign an affidavit as to its provenance I still find it odd if not unbelievable that the Royal Navy would use a GS button as a seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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