jay dubaya Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Do any of you know how many pall-bearers carried the coffin into Westminster? I know that Frank Sumpter, Haig and French were amongst them, who were the others? And is there a list of the 100 VC holders that were present at the ceremony? And just one more question, does anyone have a photo of the plaque that was unveiled on platform 8 by Frank Sumpter in 1998? Many thanks for any assistance, cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Platform 8 plaque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 4 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Many thanks Siege. Was there a reason for him staying on the platform all night? I wonder if he had sat and waited to be shipped off to the front on the same platform? 'But the Unknown Warrior travelled 1st Class at our expense only once, dead and anonymously. He was treated roally only when it was impossible to know who he had ever been. The red tabs would not have allowed him to board their train in life. Only in death and without his name was he granted an upgrade' Neil Oliver Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 I believe it was just timing. The body had set out from France earlier in the day and arrived relatively late at night. Rather than move it elsewhere (where would be appropriate?) and given that it was already pretty close to the Abbey, they allowed it to stay there and mounted a guard. Have you also seen the LBSCR/SR memorial at Victoria? For some years I used to arrive at platform 8 and pass the Unknown Warrior memorial and then go out through the main entrance past the LBSCR monument. A sobering start to the day! This website gives Beattie as another pallbearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Jon I believe that the number of pall-bearers was twelve. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 4 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Thanks for the reply Dick, don't know why I just found it odd that he would remain there on the platform all night. I haven't seen the memorial, do you have a picture? Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 See edit to previous post. I'll try to find a picture, else I'll go and take one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 4 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Thanks for the number Dave, just need to find out wo the other 8 were, thanks again Dick, do you still have that sober walk to work? Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 On an OT note, the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway also had a memorial locomotive, 'Remembrance'. Details are here. It seems that surprisingly few railway locomotive names originated in the Great War. I once had plans for a pamphlet on them, but there were too few to make anything very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Thanks for the number Dave, just need to find out wo the other 8 were, thanks again Dick, do you still have that sober walk to work? Jon No more - I am retired! I spent a few years seconded to the DfES (Ed Dept) in Sanctuary Buildings, Great Smith Street. Which has an old memorial of its own, brought from a previous office, and memorialised properly on Remembrance Day. It was a short stone's throw from the Abbey Garden of Remembrance, as well, which is a very moving sight every November. The Great War is hard to avoid in government-land... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 4 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Many thanks for the added info Dick, much appreciated, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 A likely source for this information might be The Times' online archive. I've tried (several times) and failed to register, possibly because I am using a Mac and News International are notorious for rubbish web applications which are platform dependant. If anyone else would like to try, the web address is http://archive.timesonline.co.uk/tol/archive/ I searched from 1 - 31 November 1920 using the keyword 'unknown' and it seemed that there was at least one article there which was of interest. I just couldn't log on to read it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Found them: The pall bearers were Sir Hedworth Meux, Earl Beatty, Sir Charles Madden, General Gatliff, Sir Henry Jackson, Lord Byng; Lord Home, Sir Henry Wilson, Earl Haig, Lord French, Lord Methuen and Sir Hugh Trenchard. from this web article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 4 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Dick yer a star, looks like Mr Sumpter was a pall-bearer in France, also the article states that the coffin remained on the trainovernight and not the platform as I'd been led to believe. The links fine for me, not that I've ever tried to use the Times-online before....something new every day, One of our local lads here in Pembrokeshire was a VC holder and just wondered if he was there on the day, cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Times of 6th November 1920 reports the following Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 4 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Many thanks Stephen, just registered with the Times-online. I note that the soldier was to be laid in a chapel overnight, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoj22 Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 This man was one of the Guard of Honour he is buried in Woodhouse Cemetery, Leeds. Here is a link to the others: http://www.victoriacross.org.uk/aaunksol.htm Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 4 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Many thanks Steve, just what I was looking for. Just out of interest especially since my name is Woodhouse, where is Woodhouse Cemetery? Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Here's more from Iain Stewart's great site - VC Honour Guard Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoj22 Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Hi Jon,what a coincidence, Woodhouse Cemetery is part of the University of Leeds campus and is now called St George's Field, it has been landcaped but there are still some groups of old gravestones. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 4 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Thanks Les...I haven't forgotten that I promised you a pic of Stokey Lewis' grave, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Here's more from Iain Stewart's great site - VC Honour Guard From that site: The order of the service in Westminster Abbey was published in 'The Times' newspaper on Tuesday, 9th November 1920. "The Unknown Warrior will be carried to his last resting place in Westminster Abbey between two lines of men who won the Victoria Cross or who had otherwise distinguished themselves by special valour during World War I. These will include representatives of the Royal Navy, the Army, and the Royal Air Force. The bodyguard of heroes will probably be as follows:" World War 1? In 1920? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 4 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 4 August , 2008 It does make you think when you see the term used soon after the war...how many of those who returned could see themselves back there 20 years later, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 It does make you think when you see the term used soon after the war... It makes me think that someone has inadvertently converted 'during the World War' into 'during World War 1' when transcribing the citation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Isn't "Guard of Honour" ore fitting than 'Honour Guard'? I prefer British usage! Daggers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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