Andrew Hesketh Posted 2 February , 2003 Share Posted 2 February , 2003 Anyone with a total lack of better things to do, and seeking no financial reward, fancy looking up a couple of hundred service records on the agreed understanding that it will be massively time consuming and subject to immense frustration when the d*!@!*d thing isn't there? No replies expected. Please treat this as a post from someone venting anger and frustration at the universe. All the best, Andrew 'why don't they relocate the PRO to N. Wales just for me?' Hesketh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drummy Posted 2 February , 2003 Share Posted 2 February , 2003 Wouldn't it be great if the surviving records were indexed and a searchable name/rank/number etc database placed on the net. How much time, effort and money would that save! Some type of system like what exists for the Canadian WW1 records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 2 February , 2003 Share Posted 2 February , 2003 Andrew, Stop taking the tablets and find yourself a rich widow living in the west London area who is interested in WW1. Seriously though, perhaps Drummy's dream will come true sometime, but why on earth can't they extend the opening times? The PRO knows full well that people make long journeys to scratch around for snippets of information; many come from overseas. If my own local Library can open until 7 or 8pm every weekday financed by the limited resources of the Northamptonshire County Council, surely the nation's central repository of historical documentation can, and should, do likewise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_jackson Posted 2 February , 2003 Share Posted 2 February , 2003 Does anyone know why WO363 wasn't indexed when the records were being microfilmed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 2 February , 2003 Share Posted 2 February , 2003 I must say that, although I am impressed by the scale of the effort to get the service papers on microfilm and to have access to the papers at all comes as a major step forward, I do feel rather let down by it all. 1. The failure to create a worthwhile index is surely a very serious omission. 2. I have been surprised and rather saddened by the proportion of misfiles (i.e. papers filed out of sequence). Of course, if an index had been created it would have been a relatively simple matter to keep it updated as these errors were found. In going through say 100 reels of microfilm, looking for say 20 different soldiers, I have myself seen and reported at least 8 misfiles. 3. I'm not sure quite when the project began; I am sure it was constrained by budget; but I wish the images had been scanned for access over the web. The process would presumably have been similar. But as I say, it's better than before. I am not alone when I tell you that I paid money in good faith to the MOD to find my grandfather's papers. They took the money and told me they did not exist. Oh yes they did, and they are now on microfilm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 2 February , 2003 Author Share Posted 2 February , 2003 Kate Seeking "rich widow living in the west London area who is interested in WW1." Do you fit the bill? All the best, Andrew (P.S I have GSOH) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 3 February , 2003 Share Posted 3 February , 2003 Rich? - I wish... West London? - Will 60 miles up the M1 do? Widow? - Could be arranged...but on the other hand I had the good sense to marry someone interested in WW1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 4 February , 2003 Share Posted 4 February , 2003 "No replies expected." # Andrew - on the contrary, I'd be delighted - in fact I've already pencilled you into the foreward-planning schedule (circa 2042, is that ok ! - send a list). "Wouldn't it be great if the surviving records were indexed and a searchable name/rank/number etc database placed on the net." # Drummy - quite. Some years ago a similar project was carried out at PRO for all surviving British Army Attestation & Discharge Papers 1760-1854. It took a long time to do and of course covers a tiny (no, minute) number of men in comparison to the WW1 records in WO363 & 364. It was largely compiled by (unpaid) volunteers. The issue, as always, is ££££££. "why on earth can't they extend the opening times?" # Kate - again, £££££. The twice a week 7pm closing was seen as a major breakthrough when it started - but is seems to be under-subscribed, which doesnt bode well for any expansion. "Does anyone know why WO363 wasn't indexed when the records were being microfilmed?" # Andrew - as above - £££££. - But, if there were to be a rush of volunteers to carry out the indexing I'm sure PRO would facilitate this. (See volunteers, unpaid, above). "1). The failure to create a worthwhile index 2). the proportion of misfiles 3). I wish the images had been scanned for access over the web 4). I paid money in good faith to the MOD to find my grandfather's papers. They took the money and told me they did not exist. Oh yes they did, and they are now on microfilm." # Chris - 1). As above. 2). Yes, dreadful, and not a lot can be done about it as things stand - ie the records "locked into" film format. 3) Rumours of possible scanning surface from time to time but nobody seems to be able to come up with a practical answer to problems such as potentially horrendous download times - and of course the index situation compounds that. 4). MoD seem to have been quite good at that sort of thing; I recall mentioning it elsewhere. - And as for your relative Gunner FH Wilson - yes PRO film ref WO363/W1941 folios 0680 to 0697 - I hope you DID ask for your money back ! regards - Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 9 February , 2003 Share Posted 9 February , 2003 Tom, It's no wonder that late opening is not as well used as it might be - you still need to order pieces by 16:30 so turning up at 17:00 to do a couple of hours research is not too practicable - unless, perhaps you ordered pieces on line in advance. Photocopying also stops in late afternoon. Cost will always be an issue but it is clear that simply closing later does not always give all the facilities late on in the day. of course cost is also an issue with private resaerchers engaged to do the work for you! Oh Well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 10 February , 2003 Share Posted 10 February , 2003 Kate - yes, the 4.30 pm "last orders" ruling can rather foul things up, but you do have the facility to pre-order and have the material ready & waiting when you arrive. The only way you will ever change PRO's proceedures is by raising the issues with them formally - so you should write to them. The photocopying cut-off time is a particulary pertinent issue for the visitor who will not be back at PRO again during the following few days - a point which you could stress. The bottom-line really is visitor usage after 5pm - if that doesnt rise then facilities are unlikely to be extended. As for the cost of engaging "private" researchers - I've obviously got an axe to grind - but, if you take (for example) the case of Chris's relative Gnr FH Wilson, - Chris paid the Ministry of Defence for service record searches and was told that nothing had survived. The MoD are surely "the experts" - yet in that case a researcher was able to locate Gnr Wilson's service records without too much difficulty at all. The cost angle isnt all a downside, if you get a worthwhile service. Regards - Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JoeG Posted 10 February , 2003 Share Posted 10 February , 2003 Sorry Folks - have I missed something in trying to follow this thread - where did Gunner Wilson spring from? Does Tom know something the rest of us don't - or have I got my threads in a twist? Or perhaps Wilson is related to the rich widow......? Cheers Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 11 February , 2003 Share Posted 11 February , 2003 Joe - Do you remember that spoof American soap that began with a resume concluding with the memorable phrase "Confused? You will be!!" Gunner Wilson is Chris's grand-dad. Some years ago Chris paid £20 to the Ministry of Defence for a copy of Wilson's service papers. The Ministry of Defence is the successor body to the War Office, who were Gunner Wilson's employers and so held his papers (assuming they had survived bombing in WW2). The MoD took the £20, and assured Chris that despite their best efforts they had no records for GW. The documentation was subsequently transferred to the Public Record Office, where it was microfilmed. Along comes Chris, expecting to be disappointed again, and Lo and Behold!! there is Gunner Wilson's service record. Like other people I know, I never bothered parting with the £20, because I always suspected that these things were actually carried out by spotty youths on 'work experience' placements. Moral - if you are going to part with money for this purpose use someone you can contact directly - like Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JoeG Posted 11 February , 2003 Share Posted 11 February , 2003 Kate Thankyou for that - must remember in future to put my money into private enterprise rather than the 'official' channels. Still don't quite understand though how Tom seems to know so much about Chris's grandad - first cousins perhaps? Cheers Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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