Visitors To Ieper Battlefields

[Mark Hone]

I have been running my school battlefields tour on the first weekend of the October half-term for ten years. This year the increase in the number of school and adult parties in the Salient was very noticeable. This is very encouraging but it was disappointing to see so many locked onto 'the circuit' as it is known to coach drivers, of Sanctuary Wood (Jacques Schier must be one of Belgium's richest men by now!), Tyne Cot and Essex Farm. I appreciate that harassed fellow teachers just want the 'ready-made' package but in the long run my fear is that this will provide ammunition to those who might argue for the retention of a few 'key' sites and the bulldozing of all those inconvenient 'out of the way' cemeteries that nobody visits e.g. No Man's Cot, Hedge Row Trench etc. The sooner that World Heritage Status is received for this area the better, I think.

[Mark]

As a relative "newcomer" to the Great War I have done two guided tours, on led by Paul Reed, which fuelled my enthusiasm. Since then I have made three visits in the last 12 months under my own steam to see areas around Ieper, Bullecourt and Villers Bretonneux where my ancestors saw service. Without the tours, and Paul's help and advice, I doubt my interest would be as great as it is now. The tour coaches should be welcomed as it is one of the ways to convert those with a passing interest (like me) into something much deeper.

I quite like the solitude of the rarely visited places (try standing at Hangard Wood on a spring or autumn morning and try to imagine the fierce fighting there from April to August 1918 across the peaceful fields and downs) but appreciate your concerns.

[Hedley Malloch]

School tour buses are a two-edged sword, aren't they? I was at Tyne Cot a fortnight ago when two huge tour buses rolled up and decanted 150 young people into the cemetery. The kids were all armed with worksheets and all had something to do; they made a noise but otherwise were well-behaved; their teachers seemed reasonably clued-up without conveying a sense that this was something in which they had a passionate personal interest. But you do wonder what they take away from all this. Perhaps something sticks with two or three and that's the best one can hope for.

Any teacher should have a deep, all-consuming interest in some area of their field - and be able to communicate it to their charges. But I don't think we can insist that this must be the Western Front!

There are plenty of quiet places full of interest and things to see if you've done your homework. Regina Trench is one such; the CWGC cemetery in that place gets less than 200 visitors a year

[Paul Reed]

Regina Trench is one such; the CWGC cemetery in that place gets less than 200 visitors a year

You mean less than 200 people sign the book, surely?

I personally took 10+ coach loads of Somme walkers there last year alone - 500+ people. While we ask them to sign the books, not all do.

And as this is just at the back of where I live, I often see cars going up there - so it's not as neglected as you may suspect.

Go west of Albert in the back areas - now that's a neglected part of the Somme...

[Steve_McGarry]

Boom ravine is of course within a few 100 yards of Regina Trench... but I wouldn't recommend trying to go into it in wet weather !

Sorry this thread seems to have moved from "wipers" to the somme... ignore

[Hedley Malloch]

You mean less than 200 people sign the book, surely?

The figure of 200 is indeed based on a count of the signatures in the register on my last visit which was at the end of June this year.

[ttd0]

I went on a ridiculous school trip about 6 years ago when I was doing my GCSEs. Left Wales at 2am on coach all the way to Iepres, spent 2 hours in the trenches and at the Menin Gate and then drove all the way back to Wales!

Am planning to do it properly with a tour or on my own within the next year or so.

[Guest ExChairman]

I first went to the Somme about thirteen years ago. All we had was dear old Rose Coombes's "Before Endeavours Fade" but this did us well, if you remember that Rose's version of a kilometre is not everybody's!

After that first year, we did our own thing with the aid of BEF, and the Holt's book, and through the years the Battleground Europe Series which are worth their weight in gold.

Last June, we did a Somme walk with Michael Stedman - what a revelation! You can't beat a walk round with someone who knows what he's about!

There is an amazing amount still to see on the Somme and also around Ypres - one tip - make a note of every photograph you take, numbering the negative as you go along. It's amazing how many pictures look alike once you get them back from the chemist!

[Paul Reed]

My I ask what you are the "ExChairman" of? ICI, Lloyds TSB... the WFA?

[Mark Hone]

Thanks for your replies as always, folks. There was an article in the Times Educational Supplement last week ostensibly on the Thiepval Visitors' Centre but it did air some concerns about school trips and what pupils got out of them. The view was that many came away with only a hazy idea of what they had seen. One kid apparently wrote in the Lochnagar Crater Visitors book 'very realistic' and there were complaints about the 'look around for ten minutes and back on the coach' approach which I have seen all too often. The students wander round vaguely usually ending up sitting on the Cross of Sacrifice after a couple of minutes, some filling in their dreaded worksheets (many not) and then they pile on the coach for the next cemetery. Trips where this is not the case, where the teachers and/or guide know what they are talking about and communicated that interest to their group are not that common in my experience.

I am preparing a talk for a WFA branch on how the First World War is commemorated in schools and I would be glad of any input from forum readers.

[Hedley Malloch]

(snip)... did air some concerns about school trips and what pupils got out of them. The view was that many came away with only a hazy idea of what they had seen. One kid apparently wrote in the Lochnagar Crater Visitors book 'very realistic' and there were complaints about the 'look around for ten minutes and back on the coach' approach which I have seen all too often. ... (snip)

This debate echos one which breaks out in YHA newsgroups and websites every week or so about how school parties wreck the ambience of hostels, kids don't appreciate what they are seeing, you should see what they get up to in the bathroom, all the teachers want are worksheets filled in etc. They way I look at it is that this is the nature of the beast. You are not going to persuade them all; the best that can be hoped for is to plant a seed in the hearts and minds of 2-3%. Many of the people will be in the WFA or contributing to this forum in 15 years time will have had their interest aroused on a school party.

I absolutely agree that a fanatically interested history teacher can make a big difference. But we can't expect all history teachers to be fanatically interested in the Western Front. They should be fanatically interested in something, but we cannot insist that it should be the Front.

I think it's a case of live and let live.

[Tom Morgan]

Trips where this is not the case, where the teachers and/or guide know what they are talking about and communicated that interest to their group are not that common in my experience.

Could I ask exactly what your experience is? I know you have led annual battlefield visits with your students for the past ten years, but I don't see how this alone could give you the experience to make such a sweeping indictment of the work of other teachers and battlefield guides.

[Hedley Malloch]

... (snip) I am preparing a talk for a WFA branch on how the First World War is commemorated in schools and I would be glad of any input from forum readers.

I worked near a Lycée in Istanbul for a couple of years. Whilst there I was invited to the school to see how 18 March 1915, the start of the Gallipoli campaign, was celebrated in Turkish schools. For us it is 25 April and it's called Gallipoli; for the Turks the battle started five weeks earlier and it's called the Dardanelles, rarely Gallipoli.

It was quite impressive. The whole morning was given over to plays, speeches, readings from Ataturk's writings, music and refreshments. One notable presence was that of the military; a General turned out, listened to everything attentively, said a few words, congratulated all the kids who participated. The event closed with big rakis all round for the adults and cola and cakes for the kids.

Of course the whole event was tied up with the making of Atatürk's reputation and legitimising the role of the Army in modern Turkish political life. A nice example of a combination of history, modern politics, remembrance and the First World War.

[ianw]

Perhaps had Haig had a bit more imagination he could have got on his charger and done an Attaturk in the final months of 1918 leading his Army like a latter day Arthur to Victory. He would have then returned in complete triumph and been elected P.M . Generals would be visiting our schools today and a General Election would be literally that ! Would we be worse off ? Discuss.

Seriously though , I agree that we can't expect coachloads of teenagers to experience a blinding conversion while plodding around wet cemeteries in France and Belgium . Perhaps the WFA should offer to run teacher training trips with expert assistance ?

I think we should stress to the kids that massive numbers of the Dead are much closer to them in age than the typical WFA member or Great War addict. They should be encouraged to discover the fate of their own forebears that fought through that War. How many schools have a copy of the SDGW CD ROM to assist in this , I wonder ?

[Myrtle]

I agree with Ian that the important way in which to teach the history of the Great War is through something or someone relevant to the students.

If school groups visit F&F, wouldn't it be more productive for them to visit one place which is relevant to their town, their school or their particular relatives. If the students then concentrate on one battle rather than too many they will have more chance of understanding what it was like being a soldier within that particular conflict.

The concentration on one place and a relevant soldier or soldiers, will enable the History teacher to prepare a course of work which will thoroughly prepare the students for their visit to the battlefield so that they are more able to understand the reasons why they are there.

Regards

Myrtle

[Mark Hone]

I don't think I made a sweeping indictment of other teachers and battlefield guides-I certainly didn't intend to! There are many good tours and enthusiastic and knowledgeable guides communicating their expertise and love of the subject to both adult and school groups. What I am concerned about is how far this is standard practice in the rapidly expanding school battlefield tour market. My qualifications are merely based on visting the battlefields regularly for the past 20 years, firstly with Holts, the WFA (the great tours of the mid-80's with Cave, Spagnoly and Terraine) and other companies and latterly off my own bat. I have also discussed the matter fairly extensively over the years with fellow teachers, tour guides, coach drivers, academics and (most importantly) pupils. I am not saying that my tours are perfect, far from it, but I have observed others where possible both to pick up good practice and identify pitfalls. Enthusing any audience is difficult and one must try a variety of approaches. I agree with a couple of the contributors that the local or personal angle is crucial. This is the basis of all my tours , 1st and 2nd World War and is regularly cited by pupils as the feature that they remember most. To see for example a tough 6th form rugby playing army cadet in tears at the grave of his great grandfather at Bard Cottage cemetery makes the whole thing worthwhile. I have been surprised to speak to colleagues from other schools who had never considered this angle and had no idea about tracing former pupils or local people via the CWGC or SDGW. But then, as another contributor says you can't expect everyone to be a World War One enthusiast or be able to devote endless time to planning itineraries etc.