whiterose Posted 24 July , 2008 Share Posted 24 July , 2008 Hello, Please.Can any member confirm that either or both or neither Infanterie Regiments Nr138 and Nr 131 were part of 42nd JD.They certainly appear to be side by side at sometime during the dates of my research but it leaves some area of doubt over divisional boundaries which in practise can overlap.I am assuming that 42 JD was not a Reserve Division but stand open to correction.I have been unable to find an Order of Battle for April 1918 which may have answered the question. Thanks, George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph J. Whitehead Posted 25 July , 2008 Share Posted 25 July , 2008 The 42nd Division consisted of IR 17, IR 131 and IR 138 in 1918. In April 1918 it was heavily involved in the Battle of the Lys and took heavy losses apparently. Ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S. Posted 25 July , 2008 Share Posted 25 July , 2008 This link may be useful: http://www.1914-18.info/erster-weltkrieg.php?u=166 Regimental history for IR138: Autor / Hrsg. Lasch, Wilhelm Titel Geschichte des 3. Unterelsässischen Infanterie-Regiments Nr 138 Ort Saarbrücken Verlag Saarbrücker Dr. u. Verl. Jahr 1937 Umfang 444 S., 6 Kt. 8" QK-Signatur 40.1752 Dok.-Typ m Bildnummer 45482269 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterose Posted 25 July , 2008 Author Share Posted 25 July , 2008 Ralph/Ken, Both pieces of information are of considerable value.Now I must search Nr 131 history for the action on the Lys.Jack Sheldon kindly provided me with a translation and maps for the days of my research concerning Nr 138 and these indicate that I should include Nr 131 to complete the picture. Thanks, George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S. Posted 26 July , 2008 Share Posted 26 July , 2008 I'm not sure that there is a history for IR131. I don't see it in the catalogue for the the German National Library or the Bavarian State Library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjustice Posted 26 July , 2008 Share Posted 26 July , 2008 I'm not sure that there is a history for IR131. I don't see it in the catalogue for the the German National Library or the Bavarian State Library. Are these available electronically? Kind Regards, SMJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 26 July , 2008 Share Posted 26 July , 2008 I have a note in one of my bibliographies that one does exist. Its full title appears to be 2. Lothringisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 131. I have no other details about it, but it would seem from that that it was a private venture by the regiment, probably printed in a very small print run and was a collaborative writing venture. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted 26 July , 2008 Share Posted 26 July , 2008 v.Oppen, Ehemaliges 2.Lothringisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 131 24 S Tradition des deutschen Heeres, Heft 126 Kyffhäuser, Berlin (1938) Friedhelm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterose Posted 26 July , 2008 Author Share Posted 26 July , 2008 Jack, You may recall that you supplied me the information relating to my family research and the account from the perspective of Nr 138 of the date and time + 1hr of the actual engagement.The details of position of Nr 138 at the start of the particular day are such that it is possible to determine more or less the exact flank edges.The account refers to Nr131 as to the right and this would appear to be more in front of 11EYR at the start of the day and Nr 138 more likely in front of 10 EYR.There was rapid and complex movement so that interpretation for a particular time line of a few hours is difficult. It then states that 81Div passed through the line of Nr 131 later on in the day but not as early as 9 or 10 am. Generally speaking it probably does not matter either way but if the detail is there it does make possible a more personal approach as to the men involved against each other.I never expected to get this far so perhaps further detail is a bit unrealistic but without your reference to Nr 138 there would have been no knowledge of the possible position and significance of Nr131. Regards, George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterose Posted 26 July , 2008 Author Share Posted 26 July , 2008 Friedhelm, At least I now know about the reference and should I come across it then background information about the regiment would be possible.Thank you. Regards, George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterose Posted 26 July , 2008 Author Share Posted 26 July , 2008 Ken, There does appear to be something but where available is another matter.From a sketch map 42D is marked as 42JD.I assume that the J stands for Jaeger or jager without the umlaut. If this is correct, then as Nr138 and Nr 131 were part of 42D would it mean that they were Jaeger regiments? I have yet to work out the significance of the Unterelsassischen and the Lothringisches in the regiments titles as my dictionary seems to have gone missing. Regards, George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph J. Whitehead Posted 26 July , 2008 Share Posted 26 July , 2008 The 'J' was often used instead of an 'I' when designating a unit. This indicates Infanterie Division. The units within this division were not Jäger units, they were Infantry Regiments. Ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterose Posted 26 July , 2008 Author Share Posted 26 July , 2008 Ralph Thats another one sorted out.Thanks. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S. Posted 26 July , 2008 Share Posted 26 July , 2008 Ken, There does appear to be something but where available is another matter.From a sketch map 42D is marked as 42JD.I assume that the J stands for Jaeger or jager without the umlaut. If this is correct, then as Nr138 and Nr 131 were part of 42D would it mean that they were Jaeger regiments? I have yet to work out the significance of the Unterelsassischen and the Lothringisches in the regiments titles as my dictionary seems to have gone missing. Regards, George Bavarian State Library http://www.bsb-muenchen.de/index.php?id=92 German National Library http://www.d-nb.de/eng/sammlungen/kataloge/opac.htm I've been doing searches with the terms "Regiment 131" and "Infanterie 131," since these should appear somewhere in the title or description, but it's alway possible that they don't for some reason. Unterelsassischen = Lower Alsace (ie. Lower Alsatian) Lothringisches = Lorraine (ir Lorrainian (?)) These territories, as I'm sure you know, were lost following the war. For that reason the Officer Verein for IR131 appears to have been HQed in Wuppertal, or at least that's where their newsletter was published. I checked the city and university library for Wuppertal, but there is nothing there. But you may want to contact the Bergische Geschichtsverein to see if they know anything: http://www.bgv-online.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterose Posted 26 July , 2008 Author Share Posted 26 July , 2008 Ken, Any additional information is always welcome.I was getting there very slowly after returning from a cricket match.It would appear that regiments from the AS/L region for the most part were usually on the eastern front to avoid a possible conflict of interest with any relatives just over the then border but I doubt if that was always the case. Obviously by the time that Russia was no longer engaged and the necessity for a final effort that possible consideration was of no consequence anyway. My father stressed that the Alsace Lorraine situation was always a likely reason for another conflict regardless of all the other factors. So if all my facts are correct he would have found it ironical to be in direct conflict with regiments from that area in April 1918.He never found out the identity of the opposing units as such information was not readily available to ordinary people and anyway life goes on. Regards, George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now