OK, Zero Killed?

[kmad]

Hi All

I was at a party last night with a few Spanish and Argintinian teachers and the origin of phrases came up and one of the teachers maintained that the origin of the term OK was WWI related

She maintained that at the end of the day in the trenches a message was sent back to head quarters to give the number killed during the day

ie ten killed was sent as 10 K

so on a good day when no one was killed the message would read

O K

fact or not please let me know what you think

regards

Ken

[AlanCurragh]

I don't think so - this article says that the earliest accepted usage of "OK" or "Okay" dates back to 1839. The article does mention the "zero killed" origin in relation to General Custer though.

Alan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okay#Earliest...mented_examples

[michaeldr]

'O.K.' certainly seems to have been in general use by early 1915

27th April 1915 a kite balloon from the Manica which was spotting for the Queen Elizabeth gave that signal when her third shot was a direct hit on target at a range of about 7 miles [shooting over Gallipoli from the Aegean to the Dardanelles] - see Naval Operations Vol.II, page 359

regards

Michael

[59165]

Hi Ken

I would love that story to be true but I've never seen a diaries entry that touches on OK (yet!).

If true,woud they say 'OW' for no wia?

Kinda defeats the object.

Dave.

[PhilB]

so on a good day when no one was killed the message would read O K

Ken

Maybe not a good day - message back from HQ "You`re clearly not being aggressive enough"!

[Pete1052]

I've seen the use of the letters OK attributed to a procedural code used in telegraph transmissions in Morse code during the mid-19th century. It meant "all correct." There are several schools of thought about how the word originated in America in the 1830s.

[michaeldr]

On 12/07/2008 at 18:26, michaeldr said:

'O.K.' certainly seems to have been in general use by early 1915

27th April 1915 a kite balloon from the Manica which was spotting for the Queen Elizabeth gave that signal when her third shot was a direct hit on target at a range of about 7 miles [shooting over Gallipoli from the Aegean to the Dardanelles] - see Naval Operations Vol.II, page 359

 

I've just come across a list of codes (including 'OK') which appear in a series of Naval Orders of 12^th April 1915 issued prior to the disembarkation of the army at Gallipoli,

& thought they may be of interest here

 

 

 

Signals for Intercommunication.

Between Aircraft, Naval Forces and Military Forces engaged in Combined Operations.

(To be used in conjunction with squared 1 :40,000 map)

All signals in following tables are always to be preceded by single letter Z and break-sign II.

Signal - Meaning.

U Are you receiving my signals.

SB Stand by (be ready to commence).

OF Open fire.

O Over (followed by the number of yards).

S Short „ „ „

R Right „ „ „

L Left „ ,, „

II High (shell burst too high for effect).

AR Air (shell burst above plane).

GZ Graze (shell burst on graze).

F Far (as in far over, which would be FO).

RK Range correct.

QK Line correct.

OK Range and line correct.

W Unobserved.

LN Lengthen corrector (fuzes too short).

SN Shorten corrector (fuzes too long).

B Battery in position (indicated).

BF Battery firing in position (indicated).

BA Open fire with common or lyddite.

CA Open fire with shrapnel.

BJ Your shells arc bursting dangerously near our troops.

BM Cease firing.

DA My fire is directed at position indicated.

DB I cannot see effect of my fire on position indicated.

DC Help me by spotting my fire on position indicated.

DD I cannot see effect of your fire on position indicated.

DF I can direct your fire on position indicated.

DI Position indicated about to be assaulted by us.

DJ Your shell are falling (or bursting) dangerously near our troops. Increase your elevation.

N.B.—This signal would be used to a ship supporting the attack from a position

in rear of troops.

DK Your shell are passing over the enemy and falling (or bursting) dangerously near our troops.

DL Increase volume at position indicated for number of minutes indicated.

MA Enemy is in position indicated.

MB Enemy is along line indicated by positions.

MC Enemy in position indicated is advancing.

MD Enemy in position indicated is retiring.

ME Our troops are in position indicated.

MF Our troops are along line indicated by positions.

MG Our troops in position indicated are advancing.

MH Our troops in position indicated are retiring.

MI I am in position indicated.

MJ Aircraft is spotting over position indicated.

 

[from pages 115/116 of The Mitchell Report]

[horatio2]

Very interesting, Michael. Thank you for posting

[MikeMeech]

2 hours ago, michaeldr said:

 

I've just come across a list of codes (including 'OK') which appear in a series of Naval Orders of 12^th April 1915 issued prior to the disembarkation of the army at Gallipoli,

& thought they may be of interest here

 

 

 

Signals for Intercommunication.

Between Aircraft, Naval Forces and Military Forces engaged in Combined Operations.

(To be used in conjunction with squared 1 :40,000 map)

All signals in following tables are always to be preceded by single letter Z and break-sign II.

Signal - Meaning.

U Are you receiving my signals.

SB Stand by (be ready to commence).

OF Open fire.

O Over (followed by the number of yards).

S Short „ „ „

R Right „ „ „

L Left „ ,, „

II High (shell burst too high for effect).

AR Air (shell burst above plane).

GZ Graze (shell burst on graze).

F Far (as in far over, which would be FO).

RK Range correct.

QK Line correct.

OK Range and line correct.

W Unobserved.

LN Lengthen corrector (fuzes too short).

SN Shorten corrector (fuzes too long).

B Battery in position (indicated).

BF Battery firing in position (indicated).

BA Open fire with common or lyddite.

CA Open fire with shrapnel.

BJ Your shells arc bursting dangerously near our troops.

BM Cease firing.

DA My fire is directed at position indicated.

DB I cannot see effect of my fire on position indicated.

DC Help me by spotting my fire on position indicated.

DD I cannot see effect of your fire on position indicated.

DF I can direct your fire on position indicated.

DI Position indicated about to be assaulted by us.

DJ Your shell are falling (or bursting) dangerously near our troops. Increase your elevation.

N.B.—This signal would be used to a ship supporting the attack from a position

in rear of troops.

DK Your shell are passing over the enemy and falling (or bursting) dangerously near our troops.

DL Increase volume at position indicated for number of minutes indicated.

MA Enemy is in position indicated.

MB Enemy is along line indicated by positions.

MC Enemy in position indicated is advancing.

MD Enemy in position indicated is retiring.

ME Our troops are in position indicated.

MF Our troops are along line indicated by positions.

MG Our troops in position indicated are advancing.

MH Our troops in position indicated are retiring.

MI I am in position indicated.

MJ Aircraft is spotting over position indicated.

 

[from pages 115/116 of The Mitchell Report]

Hi

 

'OK' was in use on the Western Front for Air artillery spotting by the British by December 1914, as is indicated by the document 'Co-operation of Aeroplanes with Artillery' which the War Office had completed a print run for BEF GHQ and 200 copies had been sent out in the hands of Major W G H Salmond, RFC, at the beginning of that month.  The term 'OK' was Morse code related so pre-WW1.  Code below.

 

Mike