David_Bluestein Posted 20 February , 2004 Share Posted 20 February , 2004 I thought I would share with members some groups from my collection that represent the battles fought on July 1, 1916, the opening day of the battle of the Somme. The soldiers shown below were all lost on that day of fighting. If you have any questions please let me know, Thanks David Removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Bluestein Posted 20 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2004 Removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Bluestein Posted 20 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2004 Removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Bluestein Posted 20 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2004 Removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Bluestein Posted 20 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2004 Removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Bluestein Posted 20 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2004 Removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Bluestein Posted 20 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2004 Removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Bluestein Posted 20 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2004 Removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 20 February , 2004 Share Posted 20 February , 2004 I will NEVER tire of seeing parts of your amazing collection. I have no questions (apart from the usual, 'Where do you find them?'), merely an observation on my favourite subject - all the plaques have the wide 'H' in HE DIED, with the exception of Hugh Wilson. This would SUGGEST that Woolwich Arsenal were using both types of mould - narrow H and wide H at the same time, if we assume (as many believe?!) that the plaques were being manufactured on a first-died-first-made basis. My only worry is that Hugh's second forename is not mentioned on the plaque. This is not that unusual, but it would help me if it could be proven that this plaque was always with the medals - ie it has not been made up as a set by a dealer. Do you know, David, the provenance of Wilson's collection?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somme1916 Posted 20 February , 2004 Share Posted 20 February , 2004 Very nice, thank you for sharing them with us. Cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Bluestein Posted 20 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2004 I will NEVER tire of seeing parts of your amazing collection. I have no questions (apart from the usual, 'Where do you find them?'), merely an observation on my favourite subject - all the plaques have the wide 'H' in HE DIED, with the exception of Hugh Wilson. This would SUGGEST that Woolwich Arsenal were using both types of mould - narrow H and wide H at the same time, if we assume (as many believe?!) that the plaques were being manufactured on a first-died-first-made basis. My only worry is that Hugh's second forename is not mentioned on the plaque. This is not that unusual, but it would help me if it could be proven that this plaque was always with the medals - ie it has not been made up as a set by a dealer. Do you know, David, the provenance of Wilson's collection?? Hello TP, And welcome back to the forum! (There have been several threads on Memorial Plaques that came up while you were gone). You had me scared there for a minute. Thankfully the CWGC is the ONLY source that shows a middle name of ‘MAIN’. SDGW, HLI Regt. History, show only Hugh Wilson. Further his original medal transmittal slips, and all his medals are engraved with only ‘H’ for Hugh. (see below). I have owned the Wilson collection, for over fifteen years. It originally came from a well known (and trusted) friend and collector in the US. With that said, anything is possible…But I have seen this kind of thing before, where a middle name only shows up on CWGC data. For example I have another group that shows the man as being George McRae, on all medals and documentation, However CWGC shows him as ‘Roderic George Marston McRae’. Obviously his NoK, as with Wilson submitted his true middle names, of which neither of these men chose to include when enlisting. I am very confident that this group is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Bluestein Posted 20 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2004 Removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 20 February , 2004 Share Posted 20 February , 2004 Thanks for that, David. I was fairly sure, based on the other parts of your collection, that this collection was 'right.' As you know I just want to push the plaque myths out of the window and it's down to people like you, who have good collections, that can help this process. Now I can look for more supporting evidence to prove that the two types of mould were being used simultaneously. Your thread makes me think it POSSIBLE, therefore, that around 200 moulds might have been in use at any one time...... Your scroll is also fairly unusual as it has the word Regiment, rather than 'Regt.' Don't get me wrong - it is right in EVERY way (I don't want to scare you) - but not that common (about 1 in 50 scrolls based on my experience). Just to back it up, I have a Hampshire scroll by the same scribe (the writing is near identical in italicised style, flourishes, and format) and yet he has used the word 'Regt.' and not Regiment on my scroll. So it seems that any variation was acceptable. I've just done a search on the word 'plaque' and I now see what you mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Bluestein Posted 20 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2004 RT, Your insight is always welcome! Thanks for your thoughts they are all much appreciated. I defer to you as the true expert on this subject always. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Furnell Posted 20 February , 2004 Share Posted 20 February , 2004 Hello David. Many thanks for posting the photos of some of your collection. They are a marvellous thing to see. I was interested in L/Cpl Stobie Hodge's collection,him having a 4 digit army number,and the fact he was so young. Is his first medal,a 14-15 Star,or a Mons Star? I also notice that you have his address,but do you know which Town he came from,David? I live only a few miles,from the Hampshire border,and i am always interested in Regular,Hants men,in the past tense,obviously. Many thanks again,David. You have me a little envious. All the best. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Bluestein Posted 20 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2004 Hello David. Many thanks for posting the photos of some of your collection. They are a marvellous thing to see. I was interested in L/Cpl Stobie Hodge's collection,him having a 4 digit army number,and the fact he was so young. Is his first medal,a 14-15 Star,or a Mons Star? I also notice that you have his address,but do you know which Town he came from,David? I live only a few miles,from the Hampshire border,and i am always interested in Regular,Hants men,in the past tense,obviously. Many thanks again,David. You have me a little envious. All the best. Simon. Hi Simon, Hodge has a 1914-15 Star. The only personal information on him is: Born at Limekilns, Dumfermline, Fifeshire Scotland. Nok at 11 Ballantine Place, Dunkeld Rd. Perth, and enlisted at Perth. Hope that is of some help, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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john w. Posted 20 February , 2004 Share Posted 20 February , 2004 Today I went to the Essex Regt Museum and Archive in Chelmsford and met Ian Hook the Keeper of the Archive. He is a most accomodating and knowledgeable man. During my time with him he showed me a box, and in it was an early dog tag, a pressed flower and a box of Woodies. Inside the box of Wooddies was a half smoked cig. This was taken off a dead Essex Regt soldier on the first day of the Somme, and with it was a letter from the soldier's Sgt. Explaining how they all felt and so on with all the deaths. The Sgt himself was killed in 1918. ..... Poignant Made the trip all the more worth while... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 20 February , 2004 Share Posted 20 February , 2004 Hope you don't mind if I throw in another 1st of July man, Herbert Burman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 20 February , 2004 Share Posted 20 February , 2004 ...and.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 20 February , 2004 Share Posted 20 February , 2004 ...and... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 20 February , 2004 Share Posted 20 February , 2004 ..and... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 21 February , 2004 Share Posted 21 February , 2004 ...finally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted 21 February , 2004 Share Posted 21 February , 2004 Thank you for sharing them with us Regards Christina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 21 February , 2004 Share Posted 21 February , 2004 David, Thanks for sharing the images of these lovely groups with us. Have you been over to the Somme to visit the graves in question ? If you need any grave photos for these men, I am sure many people would be delighted to assist - myself included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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