9th Oct 1917 - Tyne Cot

[jjonick]

Hi

The following men were all KIA on the same day and are commemorated at Tyne Cot.

Major Donald Paley MACKAY, 5th West Yorks

2/Lt James Fitz Gaulfield NORTHCOTE, 5th West Yorks

2/Lt Phillip Fairclough BEAUMONT, KOYLI

I have CWGC, Officer died, MICs, census records for these men and have searched the archives at the museum in York for photos. I uncovered one of Mackay 1912 which I think is great but any further information on any of them would be great (I was going to post the photo on here, but am having problems doing that!!). I have read up a little about the battle at that time but what I am interested in is finding out exactly what happened that day. I am an unable to get to Kew so wondered if anyone had access to or any info on what did happen or any relevant war diaries accessible on line.

Thanks

Nicky

[sotonmate]

Nicky

The War Diary for 1/5 West Yorks is under WO95/2794 at Kew and covers from April 1915 to Feb 1919. You could download 10 pages for 8.50 from the Catalogue's Digital Express service.

You could elect for the 10 pages back from the 8th October,then you will get the day you want and a fair bit of the build-up to Poelcapelle,where your boys,as part of 49 Division, were helping out II ANZAC Corps. It seems they were undone by undetected barbed wire, not destroyed by Artillery, which held up the advance.

Sotonmate

[ph1418]

The Battle of Poelcapelle was part of the "step by Step" approach undertaken by General Plumer (2nd Army commander) - the first three steps( Battle of Menin road,Polygon Wood and Broodsiende) had been consider to be a "success" with the BEF achieving there objectives (although with high casualties) using astonishingly concentrated artillery. (typically one gun to every 5.2 yards)

At The Battle of Broodsiende a significant number of german prisoners were captured which lead the high command( along with the success of the previous two battles) to believe the Germans were on the brink of collapse( the germans did consider it to be there "blackest day of the war so far") - The British command thought it was a major success - Plumer & Gough wanted time to prepare but Haig believing a breakthrough was possible brought forward the date to the 9th October. (conference on 2/10/1917 - see Haig Diaries)

Plumers method's relied on all-arms co-operation including aerial observation for artillery as the German Guns could not be visually observed as they were beyond the Passchendaele Ridge. Once the weather changed this became increasingly difficult.

Unfortunately the weather broke on 4th October and the battlefield become what is now seen in all the classic photo's. Also the germans had brought up new divisions and the there artillery in the previous three battles had not been damaged or destroyed as much as had been expected.

The battle went ahead but the artillery failed to provide the concentration of fire necesscary to protect the advancing infantry and to prevent German counter attacks and the battle failed to achieve the Passchendaele ridge or the breakthrough the high command expected.

I hope this background info is useful

[Nigel Marshall]

Hi Nicky,

This from the Times - 10/06/18 about Mr Northcote.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Chris Noble]

Hi Nicky.

I have the War Diary for the battalion for this period.

Please feel free to contact me and i will forward.

Kindest regards,

Chris.

[jjonick]

Thank you all so much for the information and pointing me in the right direction. I'm very grateful. I'm really beginning to get a feel and understanding of what happened that particular day which is great. Thanks again

Nicky