Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Military Medal for Cpl Jacks RGA Archangel?


biffrocks

Recommended Posts

THOMAS_EDWARD_JACKS_MIC1-1.jpg

I am trying to find out why the Military Medal awarded to Thomas Jacks was for. It states Archangel which I understand to be for Russia.

There is also a lot on the above card including Medals Forefeited? Can anyone help with with the above.

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cpl Thomas Jacks received the MM in the London Gazette of 3 Jan 1920 “..for bravery in the Field with the British Forces in North Russia.” Citations for the MM were published in only a small number of cases. Jacks forfeited his medals under King's Regulations, paragraph 392x (discharged having been convicted by the civil power for an offense of a felonious nature.) According to the MIC his BWM and 1914-15 Star were returned. He was from Liverpool. Regards, Dick Flory

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cpl Thomas Jacks received the MM in the London Gazette of 3 Jan 1920 "..for bravery in the Field with the British Forces in North Russia." Citations for the MM were published in only a small number of cases. Jacks forfeited his medals under King's Regulations, paragraph 392x (discharged having been convicted by the civil power for an offense of a felonious nature.) According to the MIC his BWM and 1914-15 Star were returned. He was from Liverpool. Regards, Dick Flory

What sort of offences would have waranted him having to return his medals?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

King's Regulations 392x indicates that the offense must be a felony and must be referred to an officer in the rank of Brigadier General or higher immediately after the soldier is convicted by the civil authority. After being confirmed the discharge certificate is to be sent to the governor of the prison in which the man is confined. Regards, Dick Flory

Link to comment
Share on other sites

King's Regulations 392x indicates that the offense must be a felony and must be referred to an officer in the rank of Brigadier General or higher immediately after the soldier is convicted by the civil authority. After being confirmed the discharge certificate is to be sent to the governor of the prison in which the man is confined. Regards, Dick Flory

I wonder why he was allowed to keep his Military Medal or was it just that he didn't return it. Either way it seems a bit harsh that he had to give up medals which he obviously bravely earnt.

Rob

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anyone know how I could check which unit Cpl Jacks was with when he won the Military Medal in Russia and then see if there is war diary to check to see why he was awarded the Medal.

Any help much appreciated.

Rob

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder if Cpl Jacks even saw his B&V/15 star medals for them to be returned. His B&V roll is over stamped ‘No Medals’ and a note saying ‘Claims deleted forfeited’ for the KR para already mentioned. Similarly on his Star roll it is stamped ‘Star Forfeited Dised. Para 392 (X) K.R.s’.

While having served in Russia it will be difficult to pin down his Battery as his records will probably not have been released yet, the one extra piece of information that can be gleamed from his B&V roll is that he served with 70 Company, garrisoned in 1915 in Aden.

Rgds Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is an interesting MIC. I do wonder whether a mistake has been made.

His RGA number would indicate someone enlisting November 1910, so he was a pre-war regular. His date of entry is given as 5C, which should indicate a code after Jan 1916, but is for 7 July 1915. If it was 5 it should be Asia, but depending on which source one uses it may be (LLT) Camaroon or (NA) Persia. As Paul has indicated we know that 70 Coy was in Aden. The RASC number given, 131834, would indicate (from a couple of records I can find) an enlistment of October 1915! This does not make sense on the face of it. It seems hard to believe that he was virtually transferred straight away after going abroad, and then returning to the RGA for him to be awarded the MM, but not imposssible.

Was there 2 Thomas Jacks? I may be wrong but is there a reference to correspondence around Aug 1942?

Is there anything of interest on his MM MIC?

Kevin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is an interesting MIC. I do wonder whether a mistake has been made.

His RGA number would indicate someone enlisting November 1910, so he was a pre-war regular. His date of entry is given as 5C, which should indicate a code after Jan 1916, but is for 7 July 1915. If it was 5 it should be Asia, but depending on which source one uses it may be (LLT) Camaroon or (NA) Persia. As Paul has indicated we know that 70 Coy was in Aden. The RASC number given, 131834, would indicate (from a couple of records I can find) an enlistment of October 1915! This does not make sense on the face of it. It seems hard to believe that he was virtually transferred straight away after going abroad, and then returning to the RGA for him to be awarded the MM, but not imposssible.

Was there 2 Thomas Jacks? I may be wrong but is there a reference to correspondence around Aug 1942?

Is there anything of interest on his MM MIC?

Kevin

Hi Kevin

I have a copy of the MM Card and it has the following.

At the top Archangel in brackets

Corps RGA 4 Depot

Reg No 33862

Surname Jacks

Christian Name Thomas

Rank Cpl

Date of Gazette 03/01/1920

Reg Paper 0137/6804

I have checked the Gazette on line and the MM is recorded

Not sure where to go next, any help much appreciated.

Thanks

Rob

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rob,

I cannot say that the MM MIC adds much, except that it may imply that he was back in England when the card and Gazette entry was made. No.4 Depot should have been at Hipswell Camp, Catterick, at this time, but I wonder whether it had returned to North Camp, Ripon, sometime in 1919.

Your best hope is that he was discharged late 1919 and his records have survived. These can be found at the National Archives or wait until all the records are on Ancestry. Otherwise it may be a case of trawling the Liverpool papers to find any reference for Cpl. Jacks. It still seems strange to me that he could have been transferred, imprisoned, returned to original unit, win the MM and retain/regain, his Corporal rank.

Kevin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The RASC number given, 131834, would indicate (from a couple of records I can find) an enlistment of October 1915!

Kevin

Is there any significance in looking at all the writing in pencil together - it all looks to be the same hand - filling in his names from the initials, the RASC, presumably the date of 17.12.39 and the number 131834. I wondered if was recorded (for whatever reason??) if he re-enlisted for WW2?? ASC didn't become RASC till late 1918 - per LLT??

Only thing that throws it is that I thought numbers were longer than 6 digits in WW2. ETA actually using Geoff's search engine there are WW2 RASC casualties that have 6 digit numbers - with a letter in front - eg T/131848 (a 29 year old driver died 1943) Curious!

I tried a search in The Times online to see if there was any mention of the "crime" but nothing came up that I could see

Cheers

Sue

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...