Who is this MONS veteran immigrant to Ontario in 1919?

[John Gilinsky]

Below is a photograph published in early 1920 showing a 1919 British MONS veteran (at least he appears to be wearing the Mons Star as well as a Silver Wound Badge) to Ontario. He is shown with his family. Who is this man? What was his pre-war service and life? What did he do during the war? What became of him and his family once they came to Canada in 1919? I think the text gives sufficient details (he was 40 years old in 1919 for example) for some avid British military genealogist or Canadian to figure out who he was! Any takers?

John

Toronto

[John Gilinsky]

Er sorry about that folks! I will text message the caption which does give further details to track this man down. Those who subscribe to Ancestry.com British version and who have access to the British census returns etc....have a good chance of finding this man.

John

Toronto

[eviltaxman]

John,

Be careful - just because he's wearing the Star doesn't mean it's the 1914 Star.... it could very easily (and more likely) be the 1914/15 Star.

Les

[John Gilinsky]

John,

Be careful - just because he's wearing the Star doesn't mean it's the 1914 Star.... it could very easily (and more likely) be the 1914/15 Star.

Les

I have not checked the difference between the medals but it does look very much like the Mons star though you are right if the basic shape configuration is the same or very close it could be either one. At any rate an early patriotic Briton. Will post shortly the text details that should narrow down the search. Interesting photo eh? (this last a Canadianism )

[eviltaxman]

John,

Just for reference (from my collection)......

1914 Star (with clasp)

1914/15 Star

The 2 together

[John Gilinsky]

Thanks so much. Unfortunately the quality of the original photo is fair at best and even upon magnification it is impossible to tell what medal the man is actually wearing. ONLY a super expert might tell. Time for genealogically inclined researcher to go to work.

Here is the caption text which gives some more clues SHERLOCKS! -

“Builders Of The British Empire

The family group depicted in the accompanying illustration accurately represents

the magnificent material which is being directed to Ontario by the office of the Agent-

General of Ontario in London, England, and which is being carefully and personally

looked after upon arrival in Ontario by the Colonization Branch of the Department of

Agriculture. Here is a stalwart Briton of forty years of age, a veteran of the Great

War, wearing a medal for distinguished conduct, who, with his wife, his daughter

and his four boys, is coming to settle in Ontario. What an attractive picture they

make, and what priceless assets they will be to Ontario in particular and to the British

Empire in general! This is the incomparable class of immigrant in which Ontario

may well rejoice, a type of the Britisher who a century ago built the foundation of

this Dominion of Canada firm and deep.

The head of this family has spent practically all his life as an agricultural

labourer upon the Duke of Norfolk’s estate, on which he was born near Arundel

Castle. He has been steadily engaged in mixed farming, making a specialty of the

rearing and developing of pure-breed cattle and live stock [sic]. He is a skilled ploughman

with either horses or steam. Now, having served with distinction throughout the Great

War, being in the prime of life and sound in wind and limb, blessed with a good

wife, a bonnie daughter of sixteen and four sturdy lads of 14, 11, 7 and 2 years old

respectively, he seeks the wider fields and the greater opportunities of Canada.

The spirit of the man shines out in the way he writes:

“I am anxious to sail for Canada as early as possible and by shortest

route in order to get to work and have the benefit of the whole season to prepare

for winter.”

Home influence and home training of the best is stamped upon this fine family

Group. A hearty personal welcome which will smother any possibility of homesickness

Awaits them on their arrival in Ontario.”

John

Toronto

ONTARIO

CANADA

(always welcoming veterans of the war.... )

[John Gilinsky]

I cannot believe no one is courageous enough to try to find this man and his family especially considering the interesting context of his photo from 1919. Surely there must be people in Norfolk(shire) and in or near Arundel Castle and who have an interest in local history.

Come on then. Let us see if we can identify and track their family history!

John

[Paul Nixon]

John

Norfolk is a red herring because the county concerned is Sussex. At the time this chap was born, it was the 15th Duke of Norfolk who occupied the ancestral seat at Arundel (and quite a seat it is too).

As for the veteran, I'd say it's almost impossible to determine with certainty who he was. Ancestry notes 94 men born at Arundel between the years 1878 and 1880. Unfortunately, the ages of his children don't help because they were all born after 1901. Maybe you should reprise this question once the 1911 census returns for England have been made available for public consumption.

Are there shipping records in Canada which you can access?

Paul

[Myrtle]

John

You could contact the Arundel archives to see if they have any records for the estate workers who fought during WW1.LINK

Myrtle

[John Gilinsky]

Myrtle: Thanks so much for this wonderful link! I will contact the archives and see (as they almost certainly do) have records of the estate workers which this man according to the information was.

Thanks again,

John

Toronto

[John Gilinsky]

John

Norfolk is a red herring because the county concerned is Sussex. At the time this chap was born, it was the 15th Duke of Norfolk who occupied the ancestral seat at Arundel (and quite a seat it is too).

As for the veteran, I'd say it's almost impossible to determine with certainty who he was. Ancestry notes 94 men born at Arundel between the years 1878 and 1880. Unfortunately, the ages of his children don't help because they were all born after 1901. Maybe you should reprise this question once the 1911 census returns for England have been made available for public consumption.

Are there shipping records in Canada which you can access?

Paul

Paul: Thanks so much for putting this colonial straight! And yes what a castle(looks more like a Hollywood type mansion - compared to all those ruined Norman keeps...!) Also thanks so much to narrowing ( ) the search down to just 94 men!

Any idea when the 1911 census will be made available for England?

There are shipping records and immigration records but they do not online at least to the best of my knowledge cover the immediate post-war period (i.e. 1918 - 1921). The great break in overseas immigration caused by the war is largely to explain for this. Yet that is why this photograph and this man and his family are so interesting. They capture the return to what was supposed to be antebellum massive British immigration to Canada but which despite more Government efforts (of which the photo is an example of Canadian / Ontario government propaganda) after the war never came close to the pre-1914 waves of British immigrants.

Thanks again,

John

[sjustice]

Without wishing to completely rain on the parade, is it possible that this photo is a fake i.e. with a native family, purely for those propoganda purposes?

Where was it published, by the way, it looks like one of those stereogram images? Any chance of getting info from the source?

Kind Regards,

SMJ

<snip>

They capture the return to what was supposed to be antebellum massive British immigration to Canada but which despite more Government efforts (of which the photo is an example of Canadian / Ontario government propaganda) after the war never came close to the pre-1914 waves of British immigrants.

Thanks again,

John

[John Gilinsky]

It is possible that the photo is a fake. However from the source a bulletin that went mainly to people in Canada at the time I doubt that the govt would have gone to such lengths to create such a happy family.

Thanks though for your thoughts.

John

Publication details:

Ontario. "Public Service Bulletin" Toronto, Ontario: Volume IV, February 1920 issue

[ralphjd]

John, I am given to understand that the 1911 census returns are to be released next year beginning with the large towns and cities followed by the more rural areas. Ralph.

[sjustice]

<snip>

Publication details:

Ontario. "Public Service Bulletin" Toronto, Ontario: Volume IV, February 1920 issue

Hi John,

Is that a local or central government publication i.e. city, state or national?

Public money may mean details in public authority records at Canada's national archives, for example. Or Toronto or Ontario local records?

A long shot, I know, but maybe worth consideration.

Good Luck.

Kind Regards,

SMJ

[Paul Nixon]

Paul: thanks so much to narrowing ( ) the search down to just 94 men!

You're welcome John, but you've still got to be a bit careful with that figure. 94 was the result given on an Ancestry search of the 1901 census for men born in Arundel between those particular years. Now, this assumes that this chap's place of birth was recorded as Arundel on the census (it might not have been). It also assumes that Ancestry's transcribers (or "transcriptionists" as they say here in India) all correctly transcribed the word Arundel (which is highly unlikely). To get a more accurate figure, you'd probably also have to search on spellings such as Arandel, Arndul, Arndale, Arundal and probably Aardvark as well. Not that I'm complaining, mind you.

[John Gilinsky]

Hi John,

Is that a local or central government publication i.e. city, state or national?

Public money may mean details in public authority records at Canada's national archives, for example. Or Toronto or Ontario local records?

A long shot, I know, but maybe worth consideration.

Good Luck.

Kind Regards,

SMJ

Semi-if not obscure end of war publication when lots of money went to support home front morale. Started in last months of the war in 1918 and continued until 1920. Interesting that if war time propaganda seemed to work why not continue it after? Major if off-topic point here (look at ww2 and your NHS! ) and the welfare state! There may be local especially provincial archives which I do have access to. Unfortunately the Colonization Branch records of the Dept of Agriculture for the Province (have not checked Agent General Records for the Province of Ontario) appear to NOT have survived (I hope though I am wrong) after checking Provincial Archives of Ontario web site search engines.

Thanks,

John

[John Gilinsky]

You're welcome John, but you've still got to be a bit careful with that figure. 94 was the result given on an Ancestry search of the 1901 census for men born in Arundel between those particular years. Now, this assumes that this chap's place of birth was recorded as Arundel on the census (it might not have been). It also assumes that Ancestry's transcribers (or "transcriptionists" as they say here in India) all correctly transcribed the word Arundel (which is highly unlikely). To get a more accurate figure, you'd probably also have to search on spellings such as Arandel, Arndul, Arndale, Arundal and probably Aardvark as well. Not that I'm complaining, mind you.

Er, eh(?) thanks again Paul. This man and his family do intrigue me since they nicely dovetail both my shellshock research(several British immigrants were deported from Canada in the 1920's suffering from this!), the huge impact of veterans both Canadian and Allied on Canada during and after the war and the rise of the Canadian welfare state.

I will try to use the Provincial Archives and check out corporate records recording individuals as well as some federal government archives if I have time when I am next in Ottawa.

Thanks again,

John