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19th Div.war diaries info needed May 19th-29th '18 for:


Florent

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Hi,

I am looking for the exact locations of these battalions in villages around Chalons sur Marne, Marne,France, for the period of

19th May to 29th May 1918, just before the Ardre battle.

Also interested by 19th Artillery, engineers...any info welcome.

If somebody own these battalions war diaries...

thanks

Florent

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Hello Florent,

Although I have the 19th. (Butterfly) Division history, there is little to say in that period as they were training & introducing new drafts, all it mentions is that they were "billeted in the pleasant villages of St. Germaine Chalons, Div. HQ at St. Germaine- la-ville".

Alas nothing about the various battalions, as I don't have the battalion diaries not a great deal I can add to what you probably know already.

I have my own interest in the Division as my father was in the 9th. Cheshires & favourite uncle in the divisional artillery.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Regards.

Colin

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Florent

56 Brigade War Diary (4 KSLI and 8 N Staffs) from Jan to May 1918 is at the National Archives Kew under WO95/2077.

58 Brigade War Diary(9 Welsh and 9 Cheshires) from Jan 1918 to Mar 1919 is under WO95/2089.

Some of the 19 Division Battalions are not identified as single units in the Catalogue,merely showing a series of Diary numbers for "19 Division". I have not found out yet how to find what each is about other than ordering the Diary at Kew and reading it's cover !

Can you say what specifically you are seeking. The period you mention, 19-29 May 1918,seems to have been a build-up period before the Aisne battles of July.

Sotonmate

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I don't wish to split hairs but as the 9th. Cheshires were transferred to the 56th. brigade in Feb, 18 will they be under W095/2089 for the period Jan18/Mar.19 as you mention ,this may confuse Florent.

As I mentioned in my post above the 19th. Division were training new drafts in the aforementioned area when they were rudely awakened on the 27th. May by the start of the battle of the Aisne.

Colin

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Hi Florent

I do not have the 1/4th K.S.L.I. diary but according to the Regimental History, the Battalion detrained at Vitry-la-Ville on the 18th May and marched to billets in Omey. The next ten days spent training and reorganization. Orders arrived on 28th May to move to slaughterhouse near Chaumuzy. On the afternoon of 29th May it took up a position in line north-north-east of Sarcy.

Annette

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Boysoldier

If only I had had the benefit of your post No 2 before I had composed mine last night I would have done a re-check on the facts I was collecting. A few minutes between our contributions,so I apologise for not checking the thread before I pressed the Add Reply button !

Sotonmate

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Sotonmate,

No apologies necessary, I apreciate you have a wider general knowlege than me , I just wondered if the WO95/2089 would cover the 9th. Cheshires in view of the transfer to the 56th Brigade ? I wouldn't know where to look, I would apreciate any further information on the 9th. Cheshires further to that I have.

I thought it might confuse Florent if he was to look at the roll which I presume is not F.O.C., as none of us appear to be able to give him any definate information he required .

My regards.

Colin

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Colin

9th Cheshires have their own (4) War Diaries in the Catalogue. for May 1918 it was WO95/2079.

I shall be assisting Florent more tangibly next week when I shall be reading the Diaries for May 1918 and seeking maps or grid references, hopefully showing troop positions.

Sotonmate

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Sotonmate,

Many thanks for your latest information on the 9th. Cheshires, much apreciated.

Regards.

Colin

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I thank you all for your responses.

In fact , I live at Saint Germain la Ville, near Chalons, where was the HQ of the 19thDiv during this period of rest after huge losses of spring 1918.

I am seeking the exact locations of each units of the 19th Div in my area, just before the Chemin des Dames german offensive.

Annette gave me "Omey" for the 4th KSLI , super Its a new info. Thanks a lot Annette.

Missing info arr now for : 9th Cheshire - 8th NStaff -9th Welsh - Arty- RE- MG...

Sontonmate, thanks for your help for 9th Cheshire and PRO references.

Florent

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  • 1 month later...
9th Cheshires have their own (4) War Diaries in the Catalogue. for May 1918 it was WO95/2079.

I shall be assisting Florent more tangibly next week when I shall be reading the Diaries for May 1918 and seeking maps or grid references, hopefully showing troop positions.

Sotonmate

How did you find that !? I am looking for the war diary of the 9th Cheshires for February 1916, and I can't find any 9th Cheshire diary except WO95/1265 - April to August 1919. When I searched for WO95/2079 nothing came up at all! What's the secret?

Michael

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Florent,

I have 8th North Staffords War Diary

19 May Arrived in billets at La Chausee at 4am

20 - 25 May Training

26 May Battalion sports day on canal. HQ Company won cup. 2nd Lieutenant T. Gaunt joined

27 May Training

28 May Battalion embussed at midnight for unknown destination. Surplus personnel remained in billets.

29 May Battalion arrived at Farm? north of Chambrecy at about 12 noon. Received instructions to take up position on ridge north of Mery-Premely. Situation very quiet during the night.

As I expect you know, the Germans atacked the next day. Dakeyne, the CO, Gaunt and 3 other officers were wounded

Can I ask what your interest is?

Phil

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  • 7 years later...

I have just returned from a visit to Chambrecy, to pay respects to private Walter George Collings who's death is recorded as 31st May 1918 aged 19. He left his Devon village as a member if the Devon Yeomanry and died as a member of the Cheshire 9th. I have found these forum posts an amazing source of information. Thank you one and all. I have a couple of questions if anyone can help? Do the diaries of the Cheshire 9th give much detail of the battle of 27th May? If so, is the national archives the best way to get a copy? Or is there a better source of detailed informa tion/pictures for the Cheshire 9ths and their place in the 19th dividion. Whats the best way of tracking this soldier 's journey from enlisting in his Devon village to Chambrecy. I have his initial registration number and his number recorded at his death.

Thank you.

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Hi Katylou,

Welcome to the forum.

A service record survives for Walter which is available from FMP here, and should also be available on Ancestry. It appears to show that he originally enlisted with the 2/1 Royal North Devon Yeomanry on 2nd February 1916 (under the service number 3976), and he was subsequently mobilised on 8th March 1917. He was renumbered as 220576 under the general renumbering of the territorial yeomanry of 1917 - see the LLT. He was then transferred to the Devonshire Regiment as number 69371 before finally being transferred to the 9th Battalion Cheshire Regiment as number 72163. His medal roll entry shows that he only had overseas service with the Devonshire and Cheshire regiments. Due to damage to the file, some of the key dates in the record are only partial, or are missing. However, it looks like he was transferred to the Devonshire Regiment on 12th April 1918, and then to the 9th Cheshire Regiment on 16th April 1918 whilst still at the infantry base depot. He was reported as having gone missing on 31st May 1918, and later accepted as having been killed in action or died of wounds on, or shortly after, that date.

Battalion, Brigade HQ. and Division HQ (General Staff) war diaries are available to download for a fee from the National Archives or by subscription from Ancestry. The NA files come as a continuous pdf, whereas the Ancestry files you have to download a page at a time. When you search the NA just use for example "9 Cheshire" rather than "9th Cheshire". The higher level diaries contain a lot more information such as orders, maps, and operational reports that aren't usually contained in battalion diaries.

Good luck with your research.

Regards

Chris

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Thank you so much for this reply. Thats a wonderful start to our journey to find out more about Walter George Collings, my great uncle. He was known as George in the village. His fiance as he left Stoke Gabriel (known in the family as Aunt Cath) lived her long life as a widow.

I have recently been reading David Blanchard's excellent new book. A great collection and narrative. Thanks again for all this information. You are most kind. Cath

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  • 4 weeks later...

I hope you enjoyed your visit to the Aisne and Marne! Do you have any photos you could share?

Regards David

Thanks for your kind comments!

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