Guest Jolyon Jenkins Posted 31 January , 2003 Share Posted 31 January , 2003 I'm making a radio documentary for the BBC and need to find someone who knows about the Kut fiasco - in particular about Townshend and Nixon and why they embarked on such an apparently pointless exercise. Are there any experts out there? Not necessarily academics but people who know their stuff who I could interview? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 31 January , 2003 Share Posted 31 January , 2003 Peter Liddle is quite an expert on Mespot - he used to be curator of the University of Leeds First World War Experience Archive. He has published one or two things on the subject as well. He is now working on a similar project re. WW2; I think you can contact them via their website: http://www.war-experience.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 31 January , 2003 Share Posted 31 January , 2003 I am unsure whether A.J. Barker, author of the one major work outside the Official Histories to cover this campaign in depth ("The Neglected War") is still alive, but he would be my recommendation. My apologies to him if he is still breathing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob carman Posted 31 January , 2003 Share Posted 31 January , 2003 A couple of years ago the BBC featured Kut and Townshend in the opening 10 minute or so segment of a TV series called something like Great British Military Blunders. The Siege" by Russell Bradden is a very readable account of events at Kut. Bradden has little time for Townshend though it was his conduct as a POW that seems to earn the most disfavour. Presumably if you are after Townshend's motives you will compare and contrast events at Kut with his other command under siege at Chitral in 1895. Despite or perhaps because of Townshend's notoriety after Kut, his widow opted for "Townshend of Kut" on the memorial stone she had placed in the wall of the church on the family's East Raynham estate. It would be interesting to know how many of the men on the estate Roll of Honour were with the 2nd Norfolks and served under Townshend in Mespot. Rob Carman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 31 January , 2003 Share Posted 31 January , 2003 The most recent book on the subject is Paul K Davis Ends and means: The British Mesopotamian Campaign and Commission Associated University Presses, 1994. He is an American academic last known to be teaching at the University of Texas, San Antonio. Geravse Philips, who is a lecturer in modern history at Manchester Metropolitan University is pretty knowledgeable, though. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 31 January , 2003 Share Posted 31 January , 2003 Sorry, should be Gervase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Lines Posted 1 February , 2003 Share Posted 1 February , 2003 Jolyon Don't forget you can get a brief but excellent overview of the campaign on this very website. It's good to see the media taking an interest in one of the lesser known areas in which fighting took place during WW1. So often we see Field Marshall Haig pilloried for his incompetence on the Western Front while equally dim witted Senior Officers who were just as pathetic seem to get off scot free. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted 1 February , 2003 Share Posted 1 February , 2003 There is a biography of Townshend by his cousin but nothing on Nixon as far as I know. Townshend was an extraordinary man, flambouyant, man-about-town (Paris) . egotistical but very caring of his men and a capable general. Nixon pushed him, the deus ex machina? Townshend' s capture of Amara practically on his own with a few sailors and soldiers, miles in front of his troops, is typical and must have been a unique occasion in military history. He was a lucky general but his luck ran out when the Kut relieving force failed to arrive in time. The story of the attempt of the British to buy the release of the British garrison with a couple of million pounds with T E Lawrence and Aubrey Herbert is another story and so is the bad press that Townshend received after his capture that turned him from hero to villain. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Grundy Posted 1 February , 2003 Share Posted 1 February , 2003 I've recently read Yeats-Brown's book, "Bengal Lancer", in which he referred to Townshend as "Alphonso". This, it was claimed, was his nickname throughout the army in Mespot. Anyone know its origin? Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted 1 February , 2003 Share Posted 1 February , 2003 Jim Alphonse because of his keen interest in French food and wine, the Parisian scene and Napoleon's strategy of which he was a keen and generally boring enthusiast. I think Alphonse was the officers' nickname for him. The troops called him Charlie from his Christian name and the Scottish song 'Charlie is my darling' that they sang when he passed by. I don't think it was ironic, they seemed genuinely to like him. In Kut he took his last bottle (French) wine to a soldier in hospital there. I'm not sure whether the soldier appreciated it or not but it was a kindly act. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_East Posted 1 February , 2003 Share Posted 1 February , 2003 Jolyon John Laffin's "British Butchers and Bunglers of World War One" has a particular good chapter on Townshend of Kut. The leadership of Beauchamp Duff,John Nixon and Charles Townshend it has been said were responsible for a military disaster,so total yet unnecessary,so futile yet expensive,that its like did not occur again until Percival presided over the fall of Singapore in early 1942. Incidentally Laffin records that Townshend was known as "Our Charlie" to his troops and at least three times asked London for promotion to Lieut General whilst under siege at Kut. Laffin also records that Townshend did not share a the fate of the bulk of his troops who had to endure a 1200 mile forced march.He does not record Townshend as being a caring leader during these adverse times. Only one senior officer, Major General Mellia insisted on marching into capivity with the men. Professor Norman Dixon in his "The Psychology of Military Incompetence" likened Townshend's personality to that of Hermann Goering which appears to be very close to how Ron reports Townshend. Looking at Townshend's behaviour when under siege and his surrender to the Turks,it does seem to be similar to Goering's behaviour during the final days of the Third Reich and attitude when confronted with his surrender to the Americans in May 1945. What did the "Official History of the War" record about Townshend and Kut.It should be interesting to compare it with John Laffin's account. Please keep us posted on your radio production Regards Frank East Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jolyon Jenkins Posted 1 February , 2003 Share Posted 1 February , 2003 Thanks for the helpful and informative replies which I am digesting. I came to Townshend through the Dixon book. Dixon takes a very conventional view of the western front (i.e. conventional for 30 years ago), and I find few people now agree with him, for example on Chambrai - so I do wonder whether I will find a lot of revisionism with Kut too. I doubt whether Barker and Braddon (the main source for Dixon) are still alive, although I too apologise to them if they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_East Posted 2 February , 2003 Share Posted 2 February , 2003 Russell Braddon died in 1995. I remember him for his account of his time as a Japanese POW in Changi after the surrender at Singapore.His book,"The Naked Island "is a stark account of the cruelty inflicted by the Imperial Japanese Army on their captives and marked the start of his writing career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted 2 February , 2003 Share Posted 2 February , 2003 Yes, Melliss came out of hospital in Kut and did start the journey on foot with the troops but fell ill again and had to go by boat to Baghdad. Townshend's self-seeking attitude made him unpopular amongst his contemporaries and this contributed to the bad press he got after capture. He was whisked off by the Turks immediately after the surrender as a great prize and only met some of the sailors from the Julnar on his journey who complained to him that they were badly treated since they were being forced to pay for the hire of the donkeys on which they rode. Townshend gave them fifteen quid. I don't think that Townshend could have done much to obviate the great hardships that both Indian and British troops suffered on the march. The press and others at the time contrasted his treatment by the Turks in 'honourable captivity,' with the sufferings of the soldiers and Townshend did not help himself by continuing in his usual self-centred manner but I think it is very easy to be unfair to him. There is a good deal of evidence that shows that he was a humane individual. As far as the conduct of the campaign goes, Townshend's contribution was very successful but it is difficult to be as generous to the other two individuals concerned, Nixon and Percy Cox and, of course, the Indian Government since it was their 'show'. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 2 February , 2003 Share Posted 2 February , 2003 Frank, Quote: "What did the "Official History of the War" record about Townshend and Kut.It should be interesting to compare it with John Laffin's account." It's been a while since I read that Volume (Mesopotamia, Vol II, Brig-Gen F.J. Moberley) but I returned for an index-driven skim read in response to your point, because it made me wonder as well. This 'toe-in-the-water' approach revealed that Moberley managed to avoid any obvious sign of opinion and judgement to creep in - he always deals with Townshend in a very strict narrative sense. Regarding Laffin - I'm not sure I would necessarily go along with him to the same extent. Laffin's has a well known view, which the title of his book reveals fairly obviously. A.J. Barker's book (Neglected War) remains, to my mind, the fairest account, in which Townshend comes in for some severe criticism in places, but not always. I certainly didn't read the book and come to the conclusion that he mimicked "Goering's behaviour during the final days of the Third Reich". Though, once again, the title of Dixon's book is somewhat opinionated and suggests a less than open mind to the subject. I've read very widely on Mesopotamia in 1915-1916 and, whilst not the kind of 'expert' Jolyon is looking for (and I can't suggest a name either - sorry) my own conclusions, for what they are worth is: a) Townshend was at best an average Commander His superiors and political masters sent him fishing without any fishing tackle c) He had an unhealthy love of sieges - having made his name in one years earlier d) His behaviour under the siege was stubborn, single-minded and stressed - but what else would one expect? e) His behaviour after the siege i.e. his 'comfortable' situation compared to the gross situation of his men, is unforgivable. I seem to have gone on a bit. Sorry. All the best, Andrew P.S. I'm not sure how the 'smiley' above infiltrated this posting - and I can't get rid of it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 3 February , 2003 Share Posted 3 February , 2003 Russell Braddon died in 1995. I remember him for his account of his time as a Japanese POW in Changi after the surrender at Singapore.His book,"The Naked Island "is a stark account of the cruelty inflicted by the Imperial Japanese Army on their captives and marked the start of his writing career. Hi Frank I consider Braddon's 'The Naked Island' to be one of the best novels to come out of WW2. It made me wonder how anyone survived being a prisoner of the Japanese. In regard to John Laffin, unfortunately he died back in 2000 Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_East Posted 3 February , 2003 Share Posted 3 February , 2003 Andrew Yes, I will agree with you about Russell Braddon's "The Naked Island".I was going to decribe it as a masterpiece,a superb account of Digger spirit in adversity.It was a book which had a place in my kitbag during my NS. Regarding Townshend I intend to get a copy of RB's "The Seige" which will probably be more detailed that the chapter in JL's "British Butchers and Bunglers of World War One". (Regarding WW2 ,another excellent account of POW experience and escape is the book by Richard Pape, (RAF NCO Aircrew ) "Boldness Be My Friend" a thrilling account of an escape from Nazi Germany. I think he was a Leeds lad and died a few years ago in Australia. I got the impression that his character was similar to Russell Braddon's) Regards Frank East Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 5 February , 2003 Share Posted 5 February , 2003 Hi Frank I'll have to look out for that book by Richard Pape as it sounds very good. I just bought Cheshire VC by Russel Braddon. I'll look forward to reading that one. Back in the mid 1990's Penguin books re-released some classic Australian WW2 novels. Braddon's 'The Naked Island' was one of these and to me stood out from the others, though Don Charlwood's 'No Moon Tonight' about his experiences in Bomber Command was very hard to put down. Cheers Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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