Rugby Football Internationals Roll of Honour

[Dolphin]

Tim

Indeed it is of interest. He was a former centre and wing threequarter with 12 caps for Scotland 1909-1913. 2061 Pte James Pearson joined the Army in August 1914 and went to France on 24 February 1915, his 26th birthday. He was shot by a sniper at Hooge on 22 May 1915.

Thanks

[Dolphin]

Dick

Again, thanks very much for the previous images. This topic seems to have gone quiet lately, but I wonder if I could trouble you for three more?

Lt R F Simson RFA;

Lt J L Huggan RAMC; and

Capt C E Wilson RWS.

Only when you have free time.

Thanks

Gareth

[rflory]

Gareth wrote:

I wonder if I could trouble you for three more?

Lt R F Simson RFA; Lt J L Huggan RAMC; and Capt C E Wilson RWS.

Attached below is the photo of Lt. R. F. Simpson. Regards. Dick Flory

[rflory]

And the photo of Lt J. L. Huggan, RAMC. Regards. Dick Flory

[rflory]

And Captain C E Wilson, RWS Regards. Dick

[Dolphin]

Dick

Again, thank you very much - it's marvellous to see portrait photographs of men I've been reseaching for years.

If your time and energy permits, I'd be grateful for photographs of all the players listed in the book (as you guessed some time ago). Could I ask for another four?

Pte J Ross, London Scottish;

Capt L Roberston, Cameron Highlanders;

Lt F E Oakeley, Royal Navy; and

Lt P D Kendall, Liverpool Regiment.

Thanks

Gareth

[Michael]

Dick

Can you show us the detail on Lambert please.

Thanks

[Dolphin]

Michael

I have the following data on D Lambert:

Lambert, Douglas (‘Daniel’)

England Internationals: 7 : 1907 F+ (5t) ; 1908 F+ (1t) W- S- (2c) ; 1911 W- (1c) F+ (2t 5c 1p) I-

Douglas Lambert was born on 4 October 1883, in Cranbrook

Played as a Wing for: St Edward’s Oxford, Eastbourne College, Harlequins, Barbarians, Middlesex

Profession: N/K

Remarks: World record 5 tries in an international (with George Lindsay v Wales 1887). His 22 points v France 1911 made him England’s then record points scorer in an international. Played for Barbarians: v Penarth (0-5) v Cardiff (0-38) v Plymouth (6-15) in 1906; v Penarth (8-5) v Cardiff (0-17) v Devonport (9-0) in 1907; v Penarth (10-10) v Cardiff (16-5) v Swansea (0-11) in 1910. He also played for London (0-3) v the 1908-1909 Wallabies. Played Association football for Corinthians. His son was born two months after his death.

War service: Lieutenant, 6th Battalion, Royal East Kent Regiment (‘The Buffs’), 37th Brigade, 12th Division.

At 1400 on 13 October 1915, the final day of the Battle of Loos, the 37th Brigade, in company with the 35th, attacked German positions between Gun Trench and The Quarries. The 6th Buffs suffered heavy casualties from fire coming from a previously unseen, and therefore not shelled, trench. The Battalion lost over 400 men in a few minutes and was able to advance only about 100 yards before being forced to halt. Lt Lambert was killed in action on 13 October 1915, at Loos, and is commemorated on the Loos Memorial, Pas de Calais, France [Panels 15 to 19].

I hope this helps.

Gareth

[Michael]

Thanks Gareth

That was the 6th Battalion's baptism of fire. 13 out of 17 officers and about 400 OR casualties.

Mick

[rflory]

Chris wrote

I've had an oversized group photo of staff college attendees dated September 1915

Chris: Does your staff college photo have any Royal Artillery officers? Regards. Dick Flory

[BottsGreys]

Weird coincidence here. For several years, I've had an oversized group photo of staff college attendees dated September 1915 (primarily officers from Welsh units). Luckily, all the men are identified. Today, I decided to check the names in CWGC and in the first row I find:

Name: WILLIAMS, JOHN LEWIS

Initials: J L

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Captain

Regiment: Welsh Regiment

Unit Text: "C" Coy. 16th Bn.

Age: 34

Date of Death: 12/07/1916

Additional information: Son of Edward and Mary Williams, of Llwyncelyn, Whitchurch, Glamorgan; husband of Mabel Williams, of Caercady, Penarth. Former Welsh International Rugby Football Player

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Plot 1. Row C. Grave 31.

Cemetery: CORBIE COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION

(My Bold)

Then, I sign on to the Forum tonight and find that someone has brought this thread to the top, just where I could notice it. Anyway, below is a scan of Capt. Williams.

Chris

[BottsGreys]

Chris: Does your staff college photo have any Royal Artillery officers? Regards. Dick Flory

Dick:

Sorry I've got our postings a-- backwards, but I couldn't get my image to load on my prior attempted post. To answer your question--no, I'm afraid they're all infantrymen. Pretty interesting, though, of the 64 men in the photo, I found 13 in CWGC--one was awarded the DSO. I think I will post the names on another thread in case there are any Welsh enthusiasts out there.

Regards,

Chris

[Dolphin]

Chris

I have the following on Capt J L Williams:

Wales Internationals: 17: 1906 SA- ; 1907 E+ (2t) S- I+ (3t) ; 1908 E+ S+ (1t) I+ (2t) A+ ; 1909 E+ (1t) S+ F+ (2t) I+ ; 1910 I+ (3t) ; 1911 E+ S+ (2t) F+ (1t) I+ ;

Anglo-Welsh Internationals: 2 : 1908 NZ- NZ=

John Williams was born on 3 January 1882 at Whitchurch, the son of Edward and Mary Williams; later husband of Mabel Williams.

Played as a Wing for: Cowbridge Grammar School, Cardiff, Whitchurch, London Welsh

Profession: Clerk in the Cardiff Coal Exchange

Remarks: In the 1904-1905 season he scored 35 tries for Cardiff. When playing for Cardiff v the 1906 Springboks, he became the only player on the tour to beat Springbok Fullback Arthur Marsberg’s tackle. Marsberg was so impressed with Williams’ swerve that he shook the Welshman’s hand after he had scored. The top try scorer of the 1908 Anglo-Welsh team in New Zealand. He played in 14 consecutive Welsh victories 1907-1911. Captained Wales v France in 1911 because he could speak French. 150 tries for Cardiff 1903-1914.

War service: Captain, ‘C’ Company, 16th Battalion, The Welsh Regiment (The Cardiff City Battalion), 115th Brigade, 38th (Welsh) Division. The battalion wore a special “Arms of Cardiff” collar badge.

In the early hours of 11 July the 115th Brigade relieved the 113th Brigade in the line at Mametz Wood, on the Somme. The Brigade was ordered to clear the remainder of Mametz Wood; during this attack the 16th Welsh suffered from machine gun fire and flamethrowers, and fell back slightly. A line through the Wood was held, but was withdrawn under a German night bombardment. Capt Williams was killed in action on 12 July 1916, at Mametz Wood, and is buried in Corbie Communal Cemetery Extension, Somme, France [Plot 1. Row C. Grave 31].

I hope this helps.

Gareth

[BottsGreys]

Gareth:

Excellent! Thanks for the background reCapt Williams--always nice to know something about the man underneath the uniform. He seems to have been quite a competitor. I also appreciate the description of his last action--a pretty brutal fight.

Regards,

Chris

[Myrtle]

Dick

I notice that you have Lt. Francis Eckley Oakeley RN on your list of International Rugby players. Please let me know if you have a photograph and any further information ?

He was a Hereford man and English half-back who died while serving in submarine "D2" on 1st December 1914.

Regards

Myrtle

[Sparky53]

Dick my Grandpappy should be in there

Arthur Percy Spark played for Scotland in a triangular tournament in around 1914

I'll dig out more info later

Cheers

jane

[bobpike]

This might be of interest. After the recent exhibition at Twickenham on rugby players who died in both wars I wrote & asked for details & they sent me this,

Bob

Great Britian

Represented a Lions team but did not play for their country.

World War I

[From Durham County Rugby Union]

Name Caps Played

1. C Y Adamson 3 1899 mia May 1915

England

World War I

[From Owen’s book]

Name Caps Played

1. H Alexander 7 1900-02 kia 17/10/15 Hulluch

2. H Berry 4 1910 kia 9/5/15 Festubert

3. A J Dingle 3 1913-14 kia 22/8/15 Gallipoli

4. L Haigh 7 1910-11 d 6/8/16 Woolwich (tr)

5. R H M Hands 2 1910 d 20/4/18 France (w)

6. A L Harrison 2 1914 kia 23/4/18 Zeebrugge

7. H A Hodges 2 1906 kia 24/3/18 nr. Mons

8. R E Inglis 3 1886 kia 18/9/16 Ginschy

9. P D Kendall 3 1901-03 kia 25/1/15 Ypres

10. J A King 12 1911-13 kia 9/8/16 Guillemont

11. R O Lagden 1 1911 kia 1/3/15 St Eloi

12. D Lambert 7 1907-11 kia 13/10/15 Loos

13. G E B Dobbs 2 1906 d17/6/17 Poperinghe (w)

14. A F Maynard 3 1914 kia 13/11/16 Beaumont Hamel

15. E R Mobbs 7 1909-10 kia 29/7/17 Zillebeke

16. W M B Nanson 2 1907 kia 4/6/15 El Krithia

17. F E Oakeley 4 1913-14 kia ?/11/14 (at sea)

18. R L Pillman 1 1914 d 9/7/16 Armentieres (w)

19. R W Poulton-Palmer 17 1909-14 kia 5/5/15 Ploegsteert Wood

20. J E Raphael 9 1902-06 d 11/6/17 Remy (w)

21. R O Schwarz 3 1899-01 d 18/11/18 France (flu)

22. L A N Slocock 8 1907-08 kia 9/8/16 Guillemont

23. F N Tarr 4 1909-13 kia 18/7/15 Ypres

24. A F Todd 2 1900 d 20/4/15 Ypres (w)

25. J H D Watson 3 1914 kia 15/10/14 (at sea)

26. C E Wilson 1 1898 kia 17/9/14 River Aisne

27. A J Wilson 1 1909 kia 1/7/17 Flanders

Scotland

World War I

[From SRU library]

Name Caps Played

1. R F Simson 1 1911

2. J L Huggan 1 1914

3. J Ross 5 1901-03

4. L Robertson 9 1908-13

5. F H Turner 15 1911-14

6. J Pearson 12 1909-13

7. D M Bain 11 1911-14

8. W C Church 1 1906

9. E T Young 1 1914 g

10. P C B Blair 5 1912-13

11. W M Wallace 4 1913-14

12. D R Bedell-Sivright 22 1900-08 d. ? Gallipoli (w)

13. W M Dickson 7 1912-13 g

14. D D Howie 7 1912-13

15. A Ross 5 1905-09

16. C H Abercrombie 6 1910-13

17. J S Wilson 2 1908-09

18. R Fraser 4 1911

19. E Milroy 12 1910-14

20. J G Will 7 1912-14

21. T A Nelson 1 1898

22. W T Forrest 8 1903-05

23. A L Wade 1 1908

24. J Y M Henderson 1 1911

25. J A Campbell 1 1900

26. S S L Steyn 2 1911-12

27. G A W Lamond 3 1899-1905

28. W R Hutchison 1 1911

29. R E Gordon 3 1913

30. W R Sutherland 13 1910-14

Ireland

World War I

[From IRFU]

Name Caps Played

1. B Maclear 11 1905-1907 kia 26/5/15 Ypres

2. E C Deane 1 1909 kia 25/9/15 Neuve Chappelle

3. V McNamara 3 1914 kia 29/11/15 Gallipoli

4. R B Burgess 1 1912 kia 9/12/15 Armentieres

5. R S Smyth 3 1903-04 died 5/4/16 London

6. J T Brett 1 1914 died 4/2/17

7. A S Taylor 4 1910-12 kia 31/7/17 Ypres

8. A L Stewart 3 1913-14 kia 4/10/17 Ypres

9. W V Edwards 2 1912 kia 29/12/17 Jerusalem

Wales

World War I

[From WRU]

Name Caps Played

1. C G Taylor 9 1884-87 kia 24/1/15 Dogger Bank Navy

2. W P Geen 3 1912-13 kia 31/7/15 Hooge, Belgium Army

3. R D G Williams 1 1881 kia 27/9/15 Loos Army

4. L A Phillips 4 1900-01 kia 14/3/16 Cambrai Army

5. E J R Thomas 4 1906-09

6. J L Williams 17 1906-11 d ? Mametz Wood (wounds)

7. C M Pritchard 14 1904-10

8. H W Thomas 2 1912-13

9. B R Lewis 2 1912-13

10. D Westacott 1 1906

11. P D Waller 6 1908-10

New Zealand

World War I

[From www.nzrugby.co.nz]

Name Caps Played

1. A J Ridland 3 1910

2. E H Dodd 1 1905

3. E T Harper 2 1904-06 Palestine

4. H S Turtill 1 1905

5. D Gallaher 6 1903-06 Passchendaele

6. R Taylor 2 1912

7. J McNeece 5 1913-14

8. J A Baird 1 1913

9. G M V Sellars 2 1913

10. R S Black 1 1914

11. H Dewer 2 1913 Gallipoli

12. A J Downing 5 1913-14 Gallipoli

South Africa

World War I

[From Paul Dobson]

Name Caps Played

1. J W H Morkel 5 1912-13 East Africa (illness)

2. G W Thompson 3 1912

3. T M Moll 1 1910

4. S H Ledger 4 1912-13

France

World War I

[From FFR]

Name Caps Played

1. J Anduran 1 cap 1910 kia ?

2. R Boudreau 2 caps 1910 kia ?

3. M Boyau 6 caps 1912-13 kia 16/9/18

4. M Burgun 11 caps 1909-14 kia 1915 (air force)

5. J Conil de Beyssac 5 caps 1912-14 kia 11/6/18

6. P Descamps 1 cap 1911 kia ?

7. J Dufau 4 caps 1912 kia ?

8. P Dupre 1 cap 1909 kia ?

9. A Eutrope 1 cap 1913 kia ?

10. F Faure 3 caps 1914 kia ?

11. M Giaccardy 1 cap 1907 kia ?

12. P Guilleman 11 caps 1908-11 kia ?

13. M Hedembaigt 3 caps 1913-14 kia ?

14. E Iguinitz 1 cap 1914 kia ?

15. D Ihingoue 2 caps 1912 kia ?

16. H Isaac 2 caps 1907-8 kia?

17. A Lacassagne 2 caps 1906-7 kia ?

18. G Lane 16 caps 1906-13 kia 24/9/14 Stenay/Lerouville

19. L Larribeau 7 caps 1912-14 kia 13/12/16 Poivre

20. M Legrain 13 caps 1909-14 kia ?

21. A Maysonnie 3 caps 1908-10 kia 1916 Verdun

22. F Poydebasque 2 caps 1914 kia ?

23. T Varvier 6 caps 1906-1912 kia ?

Australia

World War I

[From ARU Archives]

Name Caps Played

1. H W George 8 1910-14 kia 1916

2. B D Hughes 2 1913 kia 1914

3. H A Jones 3 1913 kia 1918

4. E R Larkin 1 1903 kia 24/5/15 Gallipoli

5. B I Swannell 1 1905 kia 25/4/15 Gallipoli Army (major)

6. W G Tasker 6 1913-14 kia 1918

7. F Thompson 5 1913-14 kia 1918

8. A C Verge 2 1904 kia 1915 Egypt Royal Army Medical Corps

9. C Wallach 4 1913-14 kia 22/4/1915 France

Romania

World War I

[From Constantin Zamfir]

Name Caps Played

Henry Iconomu 1

George Manu 1 Romanian Tennis Club

Constantin Cratunescu 1 Romanian Tennis Club

Corneliu Mateescu

George Tzova

Barzan

Pantelimon Pribegeanu

[bobpike]

Comparing the two lists leads to some queries :-

I cannot identify from the book's list - Lt. J Y M Henderson HLI & Lt-Col. R D G Williams.

Lt. F R Wilson does not appear on the'Twickenham' list.

From the 'Twickenham' list the book does not mention - A J Wilson, G A W Lamond, W R Hutchison, E T Harper plus the following who I cannot identifyat all - G W Thompson (South Africa) & H S Turthill (NZ),

Help, please!

Bob

[bobpike]

Further to my last message, I've worked out who Lt-Col. Williams is - Garnons-Williams, but I cannot find 2Lt. Jasper T Brett R Dub Fus - any suggestions?

Also any help with the French internationals would be much appreciated. Have been on the SGA French site without much success,

Cheers,

bob

[Kate Wills]

Quite why Sewell chose to ignore Blair Inskip Swannell when compiling his compendium of fallen Rugby Internationals is open to question, though I daresay Dolphin will have thoughts about this.

Swannell played in six internationals at loose forward for Great Britain (not England), including the tour of Australia and New Zealand 1904 captained by Bedell-Sivright, who also died at Gallipoli. He was already in Australia at the time, and joined the touring party there. He became an official of the NSW RU and represented the state on six occasions, and won his single Australian cap versus New Zealand in 1905 aged 30.

[Dolphin]

Bob

J Y M Henderson is often listed as Milne-Henderson. Jasper Brett may not be shown as he was no longer serving at the time of his death in Dublin.

As far as I can determine, the French Internationals who lost their lives were:

Anduran, Marie Jean Baptiste Joseph (Joé) 226ème Regiment d’Infanterie

Boudreaux, René Emile Henri 103ème Regiment d’Infanterie

Boyau, Maurice Jean-Paul Escadrille N77, Aviation Militaire

Burgun, Marcel Escadrille MF50, later Escadrille N38, Aviation Militaire

Conilh de Beyssac, Jean Jacques 81ère Artillerie Lourde

Decamps, Paul Henri 246ème Regiment d’Infanterie

Dufau, Julien Regiment d’Infanterie Coloniale

Dupré, Paul Edouard 4ème Zouaves

Eutrope, Albert Colonial Infantry

Giacardy, Marc 6ème Regiment d’Infanterie

Guilleman, Pierre 23ème Regiment d’Infanterie

Hedembaigt, Maurice 89ème Regiment d’Infanterie

Iguiniz, Emmanuel 49ème Regiment d’Infanterie

Ihingoue, Daniel 633ème BataillonTirailleurs Sénégalais

Isaac, Henri Emmanuel 5ème Regiment Mixte de Zouaves et Tiralleurs and 1ier

Groupe d’Aviation, Aviation Militaire

Lacassagne, André 284ème Regiment d’Infanterie

Lane, Gaston 346ème Regiment d’Infanterie

Larribau, Jean Aimé 12ème Regiment d’Infanterie

Lasserre, René (‘Poulet’) Aviation Militaire

Legrain, Marcel 154ème Regiment d’Infanterie

Poeydebasque, Jean François 249ème Regiment d’Infanterie

Varvier, Theódore Not known

I've been researching the Internationals who served for a while, so please let me know if I can help further.

Regards

Gareth

[Michael]

Dick

Could i trouble you for a look-up of 2Lt D Lambert who was killed at Loos with the 6th Buffs.

Thanks

Mick

[Aaron Nelson]

QUOTE

One question that does spring to mind when reading the contents list is how it was determined? Presumably it deals only with Empire casualties, hence no French players, but I immediately noticed that no Wallabies are included, even Captain B D Hughes MC who served in the Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Is there an explanation

Hi Pals,

Explanation re the Australian question. The reason no Australians are included in this roll of honour is because at that time Australia did not have an International rugby team. When New Zealand played Australia it was with the New South Wales Rugby team based in Sydney. New South Wales was really the only state of Australia that played rugby. And Im pleased to say for many a year we wiped them.........as we did the English....and the Welsh.....and the Scots......need I go on???............ Best regards Aaron Nelson (Avid allblack fan..in case you hadnt noticed)

PS Dick, good find we love our rugby down here and there were often rugby matches between soldiers during the first world war.

[Dolphin]

Aaron

Sorry mate, but you've got things confused. Australian teams, based on players from both New South Wales and Queensland, played as Australia prior to the War: v Great Britain four times in 1899, v NZ once in 1903, v GB three times in 1904, v NZ once in 1905, v NZ three times in 1907, v Wales and England on the first Wallaby tour in 1908-09, v NZ three times in 1910, v All-America in 1912, v NZ three times in 1913 and v NZ three times in 1914.

Unfortunately, the high enlistment rates among Rugby players meant that Australian domestic competitions were more or less suspended during the War, and the dreaded Rugby League moved in. Rugby in Queensland just about died out, and was not revived until 1929. Hence, the NSW Waratahs were the Australian team of the 1920s. Matches v NSW were considered as Internationals by Ireland (defeated by NSW 5-3), Wales (defeated by NSW 18-8), Scotland (won 8-10), England (won 8-11) and France (defeated by NSW 11-8). In 1986 the NSW players on the 1927-28 Waratah tour to Europe, as well as the Waratah teams who played NZ while Queensland Rugby was dormant, were retrospectively awarded full international honours.

You mentioned matches between soldiers. After the Armistice, the King's Cup competition was organised to provide some sport for troops in the UK awaiting demobilisation. You might like to note that the only team to defeat the winning NZ Army team was the AIF, who won 6-5 at Bradford.

I believe that the reason that no Australians were included in the Book of Honour was that when the book was being compiled the QRU had more or less vanished and the NSWRU was still recovering from its losses and wasn't able to respond.

It took Australian Rugby a long time to recover from the setback of the Great War, but it has happened. Winning two World Cups is no mean achievement!

Cheers

Gareth

[Arnie]

Can I submit a Rugby League international;

John (Jack) Harrison, a schoolmaster, was a star wing three-quarter with Hull FC in the years before the Great War. He was a regular first team player and a top try scorer. On the outbreak of war in August 1914 he immediately joined the Army as a private soldier. He was soon granted a commission in his local Battalion of the East Yorkshire Regiment. During the battle for Arras in 1917 he charged an enemy machine gun position alone. He was awarded the Victoria Cross posthumously, missing believed killed. He had already won the Military Cross for earlier bravery.

To honour this extraordinary soldier and player, the Army Rugby League presented the Jack Harrison VC Memorial Trophy to the Combined Services Rugby League in the year 2000, to be contested for annually in the Inter-Services fixture between the Army and the Royal Navy. The Royal Navy are the current holders.

Gareth

and the dreaded Rugby League moved in

Your not trying to tell us are you that RL men didn't enlist ?

Its strange in WW2 in Vichy France RL players were the backbone of the resistance So much so that the French RU were able to get the Vichy Government to outlaw RL and sequester all their funds, grounds and equipment and hand it all over to the French RU. A case is going through the French courts wherethe RL are claiming compensation from the RU. If the French are you are found at fault they could lose everything. The punishment for collaboration

Arnie