Skipman Posted 16 June , 2008 Share Posted 16 June , 2008 Can anyone confirm that this is argyll and sutherland dress uniform? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 16 June , 2008 Share Posted 16 June , 2008 Can anyone confirm that this is argyll and sutherland dress uniform? The tartan is not a 'modern Black Watch pattern', as worn by the A&SH, but looks to be a Royal Stewart pattern, as best I can tell in B&W. There were at least 2 regiments whose pipers wore such a tartan, including the Scots Guards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACRAE Posted 16 June , 2008 Share Posted 16 June , 2008 The tartan is not a 'modern Black Watch pattern', as worn by the A&SH, but looks to be a Royal Stewart pattern, as best I can tell in B&W. There were at least 2 regiments whose pipers wore such a tartan, including the Scots Guards. If A&SH the sporran should have the swinging six on it not 2 . I also would have thought the BIG silver buckels on the shoe was non military . Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipman Posted 16 June , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 June , 2008 The tartan is not a 'modern Black Watch pattern', as worn by the A&SH, but looks to be a Royal Stewart pattern, as best I can tell in B&W. There were at least 2 regiments whose pipers wore such a tartan, including the Scots Guards. That's very interesting,this guy had two brothers serving in A&S H,i presumed it was same,will post photos his brothers if i can,i always struggle with photos,thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 16 June , 2008 Share Posted 16 June , 2008 Hello, He is wearing the uniform of a Piper. Not sure at this point if he is in a Military band or in a Civilian one. I will have a rack about and see if I can find a match. Regards, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACRAE Posted 16 June , 2008 Share Posted 16 June , 2008 Stewart With those shoes I would lean towards civy. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipman Posted 16 June , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 June , 2008 Hello, He is wearing the uniform of a Piper. Not sure at this point if he is in a Military band or in a Civilian one. I will have a rack about and see if I can find a match. Regards, Stewart The plot thickens,am pretty sure he served in ww1,do you think he could have been piper in A&S H? Am trying to put photo of brother in his uniform in a post,but always have trouble resizing photos,stay with me i will get there,thanks to all/ keep suggestions coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 17 June , 2008 Share Posted 17 June , 2008 The buckles on the brouges make me a little suspicious (and no spats either)...but I can't really get much from the picture at this size. Is there anything on the back to indicate where it was taken? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipman Posted 17 June , 2008 Author Share Posted 17 June , 2008 The buckles on the brouges make me a little suspicious (and no spats either)...but I can't really get much from the picture at this size. Is there anything on the back to indicate where it was taken? Chris There is nothing on the back am afraid.Am pretty sure he is Charles McPhee,that's all i have but have more on his brothers.It's possible this was taken before the war,am not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 17 June , 2008 Share Posted 17 June , 2008 Hello, I think he must be a member of a Civilian Pipe band. I can't find any regimental pipers wearing this exact unifrom I am afraid. The buckles on his brogues do not present a problem, as there was an order of dress for pipers where they wore this type of shoe. For the officers it was offically called Levee dress, not sure how it was known for the pipers. I think it was mainly worn when playing in the Officers mess etc. Dan if you check your photo's from the Unvailing of the Scottish memorial last year, the 2 Pipers who played together during the even, from the 51st Highland regiment, were both in this order of dress. Can you tell me the Pipers name. I can check my list of WW1 Pipers and see if he is listed as one. If he is, I should be able to tell you his battalion. Regards, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 17 June , 2008 Share Posted 17 June , 2008 Definitely not an Argyll hair sporran. The Royal Stewart kilt is worn by pipers regardless of regiment. The brogues look a bit fancy and no spats is unusual. Pipers did not always begin and end their piping careers in the army. He may well have piped for the Argylls and before and after in a pipe band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 17 June , 2008 Share Posted 17 June , 2008 Hello, There are 3 Charles Mcphee's listed on the MIC at the national Archive. Non appears to hold the offical rank of Piper, but that does not mean too much. I have also checked my list of pipers, but can't find him listed under A&SH. My list is no where near complete, so he may well be on of the 3 Mcphee's listed on the MIC's and he may very well have been a piper. The photo you have shown must be when he was with a Civy Pipe band. Happy hunting, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 17 June , 2008 Share Posted 17 June , 2008 Hello, I think he must be a member of a Civilian Pipe band. I can't find any regimental pipers wearing this exact unifrom I am afraid. The buckles on his brogues do not present a problem, as there was an order of dress for pipers where they wore this type of shoe. For the officers it was offically called Levee dress, not sure how it was known for the pipers. I think it was mainly worn when playing in the Officers mess etc. Dan if you check your photo's from the Unvailing of the Scottish memorial last year, the 2 Pipers who played together during the even, from the 51st Highland regiment, were both in this order of dress. Can you tell me the Pipers name. I can check my list of WW1 Pipers and see if he is listed as one. If he is, I should be able to tell you his battalion. Regards, Stewart I agree that this piper is in a form of dress worn for playing at dances and balls in the Mess. I have seen it many times and it is a form of dress still worn today but seen rarely by civilians unless they are guests at the function concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipman Posted 17 June , 2008 Author Share Posted 17 June , 2008 What a response,there really are some great brains in this forum.Will keep digging for info,and keep the answers coming.Am actually going to see all these guys nephew this week sometime.Will have a list of questions for him and will post any new info .Cheers guys'n'gals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 17 June , 2008 Share Posted 17 June , 2008 skipman, It's hard to tell from a black & white photo, but I think the plaid is Erskine: Though the doubled thin green line in the middle of the lighter bands looks like a single line in the photo. I'm assuming that's just due to the poor resolution of the photo There was a useful thread earlier in the year on Erskine tartan & use by pipers if you do a Forum search. That might throw some more light on this?? HTH Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 17 June , 2008 Share Posted 17 June , 2008 There was a useful thread earlier in the year on Erskine tartan & use by pipers if you do a Forum search. That might throw some more light on this?? Pals, Felt too guilty about not doing that extra bit of legwork so here's the Topic I was thinking about: Scots Uniform ID, Kilted RSF? Re-reading it again, I'm less sure it casts much light on this one as Erskine was not worn by the RSF until well after the Great War Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMMo Posted 18 June , 2008 Share Posted 18 June , 2008 Here's a possibility. The 4th Highland (Mountain) Brigade (RGA), TF wore Royal Stewart tartan as the flash behind the RGA cap badge on their Bonnets. Their pipers may have worn that tartan kilt as well. I have four MacPhee's (one a McPhee), none named Charles, (Allan, Donald, James and "J") and three McFie's (Alex, Peter & William) in my Nominal Roll of the brigade. Attached is a poor quality photo of the pipes & drums of the Bute Mountain Battery, 4th Highland Mountain Brigade. Can't really tell the tartan, but the sporran on the right front looks similar. Any thoughts? Mike Morrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 18 June , 2008 Share Posted 18 June , 2008 OOOHHHHH You have been holding out on us Mike!! This needs to be added to the Bedford thread immediately! given the heading! Great photo Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMMo Posted 18 June , 2008 Share Posted 18 June , 2008 Oops! I guess I need to go through a whole raft of photos then. Of the two collections of my grandfather's photos (ones he took) one set is at some training facility which may be Bedford, it may be Scotton Camp, Yorks and it may be Invergordon. I'll have to throw some up for the experts to study and let me know. For instance, this had to be sent in two posts because I absolutely could not get it down to proper size elsewise. It shows pipers from the 51st Division, various regiments, including the Pipe Major, Peter Stewart (left) and Piper Lawrie (right) from the 4th Highland (Mountain) Brigade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMMo Posted 18 June , 2008 Share Posted 18 June , 2008 And here's the bottom half: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipman Posted 22 June , 2008 Author Share Posted 22 June , 2008 Great photos,was talking to a piper that thinks the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders,had a sporran of a badger.Looking at the photos,it is a badger.Not sure if he meant just the pipers,...as you say the "swinging six" is their sporran.Any thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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