bantamforgot Posted 15 January , 2008 Share Posted 15 January , 2008 Does anyone know whatever happened to J. Lipman, I know he was a POW but did anything happen to him at wars end.? Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 15 January , 2008 Share Posted 15 January , 2008 Hello Colin Your post is a bit ambiguous...the thread heading suggests he was a deserter and your message says he was a PoW..can we have some clarification please? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 15 January , 2008 Share Posted 15 January , 2008 I assume that this refers to Private Josef Lipmann, W Company, 2nd Bn Royal Fusiliers, who deserted near Beaumont Hamel during the night 27/28 June 1916. I have not a clue what happened to him after he was interrogated, but if I anyone knows, I, too, should be interested to find out. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantamforgot Posted 15 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2008 To Max, well I presume being a deserter he would automatically become a POW! What else? To Jack, yes I would like to know , perhaps someone will enlighten us. Cheers. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 15 January , 2008 Share Posted 15 January , 2008 I agree with max, a deserter wouldn't necessarily be a POW. He would only usually be a POW if he intentionally deserted to the enemy side or was unfortunate enough to be caught by the enemy whilst deserting or having deserted. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantamforgot Posted 15 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2008 How do you think he was classified then Mick? Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 15 January , 2008 Share Posted 15 January , 2008 Colin Unless you tell us wether or not he fell into German hands how the bleep can we say? But - if he deserted to the rear then - deserter - if he deserted and was captured by the Germans even though he didn't intend this - POW but liahle to a desertion charge on release - if he went over to the Germans deliberately - deserter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantamforgot Posted 15 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2008 Sorry Centurion, I thought this was a well know case known to all old sweats. J. Lipmann who deserted to the Germans, as Jack Sheldon mentioned prior, post 3. How would you classify him? Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantowi Posted 15 January , 2008 Share Posted 15 January , 2008 Colin, Not being "an Old Sweat", can you give us plebs a bit more info? did he desert to the germans or just run away and got caught? (post#3 dont say where he went !) and who did the interrogation, us or the germans ? sound a fascinating story Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 15 January , 2008 Share Posted 15 January , 2008 Josef_Lipmann.doc Herewith,so everyone has the same information, a short extract from my book about the German army on the Somme which outlines the Lipmann desertion. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantamforgot Posted 15 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2008 Hello Grant, He deserted to the Germans before the opening of the Somme offensive , after that it is a blank, hence my query. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem49 Posted 15 January , 2008 Share Posted 15 January , 2008 Hopefully he stayed in Germany or returned to Russia. If not they should have hung the B****** sm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantamforgot Posted 15 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2008 Many thanks Jack , I only had the basic information but it intrigued me , your article covers the situation in detail. Would the Royal Fusiliers have any further details or would it be improper to pose the question? Regards. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantowi Posted 15 January , 2008 Share Posted 15 January , 2008 Cheers Jack, That make it easier to follow the thread !! Hope he got his just rewards Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milner Posted 15 January , 2008 Share Posted 15 January , 2008 If he deserted and handed himself into the Germans and then provided them with material help as per the document. Is he then a traitor and not just a deserter? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 15 January , 2008 Share Posted 15 January , 2008 He is mentioned as one of a number of deserters in Through German Eyes (Christopher Duffy) The name is spelt Lippmann and it seems that there is a file in the Barvarian State Archives in Munich (Bd 46 Vernehmung eines Uberlaufers [iI.R.Fus.29th Div. 86 Brig]) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susanhemmings Posted 16 January , 2008 Share Posted 16 January , 2008 Well found Centurion. Susan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 16 January , 2008 Share Posted 16 January , 2008 Just to remove any doubt about how Josef Lipmann spelt his name, at least according to those who questioned him, here is the header of his interrogation report. This particular copy was in the files of Bavarian Reserve Infantry Regiment 8, but the report crops up in several places in the archives in Munich and Stuttgart. I do not know why Christopher Duffy used Joseph Lippmann. It may have been an anglicisation of the name, or just a slip. His otherwise excellent book contains a number of them. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heid the Ba Posted 16 January , 2008 Share Posted 16 January , 2008 The Indian Corp had a number of deserters (38 comes to mind) who went over to the Germans in dribs and drabs. They were mostly Pathans, to use the contemporary nomenclature, who were returned to Afghanistan by the Germans after being used to try and turn POWs. My understanding is that the more help you give after crossing the line, the less likely you are to end up in a POW camp. I suspect Lipmann may have been returned to Russia post 1917. Frying pan/fire comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantamforgot Posted 16 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2008 Thanks for the information Jack, it would still be interesting to know where Josef Lipmann ended, at least we are better informed than before. I am aware of one or two slips in the book you mention , I did indeed contact Mr Duffy about same, he was very courteous about the matter unlike some authors & as you say an excellent book. Mr B. Moorhouse was another author who accepted his errors in the same vein, another gentleman. It must be unique for any book of this nature to be 100% accurate, I am amazed there are so few errors in works of this nature. Again thanks for your interest & information. Regards. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susanhemmings Posted 16 January , 2008 Share Posted 16 January , 2008 Colin, Thanks for starting this fascinating thread and thank you to Jack and Centurion for filling in (even if I cannot understand much of the German written). It is fascinating none the less. Susan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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