Trey Whitley Posted 6 November , 2007 Share Posted 6 November , 2007 My apologies in advance for the length of this post, but I am looking for help researching a firearm produced in limited numbers and apparently used in the African Theatre during World War I. I recently acquired a Winchester Model 1894 variant known by Winchester collectors as a “Belgian Congo carbine”. This particular version has two features not found on any other Model 1894: a rear “ladder” sight graduated and marked in meters, and factory side-mounted sling swivels. Everything else about these carbines is standard; all known Congo carbines are caliber .30 WCF and were made with gumwood stocks often used on Model 1892 and 1894 carbines during this period (Winchester was experiencing a shortage of suitable walnut, and reserved walnut blanks for other models, as well as Model 1892 and 1894 rifles). Many of the parts were stamped with matching assembly numbers, a common Winchester practice when assembling and finishing a special-order gun to make sure that all of the hand-fit pieces remained together. In this case, the need to keep everything together was driven by the inletting required to fit the unique sling swivels, themselves marked with the assembly number. Most of these are found in well-used, worn condition with little or no original finish remaining; the full-length photo of the carbine in my possession is an exception to the rule. The photo of the unique sight markings was provided to me by another Winchester collector. My carbine was manufactured circa May 1914 and has a number of marks from the Leige proof house. On the barrel: B. BLINDÉE (Balles Blindée; French): “(for) jacketed bullets” P.V.: smokeless powder proof “spangled” letter “F” (F with a star over it): proof house controller/inspector’s mark “flaming bomb” ordnance mark with script “L”: Belgian military proof mark (?) On the receiver: “spangled” letter “F” (F with a star over it): proof house controller/inspector’s mark “flaming bomb” ordnance mark with script “L”: Belgian military proof mark (?) There is at least one carbine of this type that has French proof marks (from the St. Etienne proof house). Not surprisingly, it appears to have been made circa August 1914, after Belgium was occupied by German forces. A few others are known that have no foreign proof marks at all. The total production of this unique carbine has been estimated at 200 but I think that is no more than a WAG based on the limited numbers seen in the U.S. Within the Winchester collecting community there is no known research on these carbines. With the exception of a large number of Model 1895 muskets purchased by the Russian government circa 1915, very few lever actions were issued to military units and the majority of those were not deployed to combat zones (the United States purchased ~1,800 Model 1894 carbines during World War I for use by troops stationed in the Pacific Northwest). For these reasons, it would be beneficial to learn as much as possible about the so called Belgian Congo carbines. I am gathering all information I can find on these; if any conclusions can be drawn the information will be published in an upcoming edition of The Winchester Collector. Any information on the original purchase of Belgian Congo carbines and their use by military or police forces would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birchp Posted 6 November , 2007 Share Posted 6 November , 2007 My apologies in advance for the length of this post, but I am looking for help researching a firearm produced in limited numbers and apparently used in the African Theatre during World War I. I recently acquired a Winchester Model 1894 variant known by Winchester collectors as a “Belgian Congo carbine”. This particular version has two features not found on any other Model 1894: a rear “ladder” sight graduated and marked in meters, and factory side-mounted sling swivels. Everything else about these carbines is standard; all known Congo carbines are caliber .30 WCF and were made with gumwood stocks often used on Model 1892 and 1894 carbines during this period (Winchester was experiencing a shortage of suitable walnut, and reserved walnut blanks for other models, as well as Model 1892 and 1894 rifles). Many of the parts were stamped with matching assembly numbers, a common Winchester practice when assembling and finishing a special-order gun to make sure that all of the hand-fit pieces remained together. In this case, the need to keep everything together was driven by the inletting required to fit the unique sling swivels, themselves marked with the assembly number. Most of these are found in well-used, worn condition with little or no original finish remaining; the full-length photo of the carbine in my possession is an exception to the rule. The photo of the unique sight markings was provided to me by another Winchester collector. My carbine was manufactured circa May 1914 and has a number of marks from the Leige proof house. On the barrel: B. BLINDÉE (Balles Blindée; French): “(for) jacketed bullets” P.V.: smokeless powder proof “spangled” letter “F” (F with a star over it): proof house controller/inspector’s mark “flaming bomb” ordnance mark with script “L”: Belgian military proof mark (?) On the receiver: “spangled” letter “F” (F with a star over it): proof house controller/inspector’s mark “flaming bomb” ordnance mark with script “L”: Belgian military proof mark (?) There is at least one carbine of this type that has French proof marks (from the St. Etienne proof house). Not surprisingly, it appears to have been made circa August 1914, after Belgium was occupied by German forces. A few others are known that have no foreign proof marks at all. The total production of this unique carbine has been estimated at 200 but I think that is no more than a WAG based on the limited numbers seen in the U.S. Within the Winchester collecting community there is no known research on these carbines. With the exception of a large number of Model 1895 muskets purchased by the Russian government circa 1915, very few lever actions were issued to military units and the majority of those were not deployed to combat zones (the United States purchased ~1,800 Model 1894 carbines during World War I for use by troops stationed in the Pacific Northwest). For these reasons, it would be beneficial to learn as much as possible about the so called Belgian Congo carbines. I am gathering all information I can find on these; if any conclusions can be drawn the information will be published in an upcoming edition of The Winchester Collector. Any information on the original purchase of Belgian Congo carbines and their use by military or police forces would be greatly appreciated. Hi BELGIAN CONGO VARIATION OF MODEL 1894 SADDLERING CARBINE IN 30-30 About 200 of these were ordered from Winchester in 1913 to outfit the Belgian Infantry. Serial number's fall in about the 65X,XXX range. They've got a different type of sling swivel mounted on the side of the stock and the side of the forearm band-different than Winchester's ever done; rear carbine leaf sight is measured in meters, the gumwood stocks are virtually unused retaining all the barrel and magazine blue log onto: http://www.leroymerz.com/catalog_C0_11_1.php scroll down to 8-186 BELGIAN CONGO VARIATION OF MODEL 1894 SADDLERING CARBINE IN 30-30 Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trey Whitley Posted 6 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 6 November , 2007 Thanks Paul. I'm a customer of Merz's and familiar with the description (it's the gun I bought) but unfortunately the information Leroy and the rest of us Winchester collectors have on Congo carbines is word-of-mouth passed down over the years. If possible, I'd like to find some hard evidence that provides a true account of their history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 7 November , 2007 Share Posted 7 November , 2007 A very interesting post, concentrating as I do on British military weapons and ammunition I was unaware of this variation. Unfortunately I cannot help with any information, but I thought you might be interested in some other data. You said that very few other lever action Winchesters saw military service, but Britain made use of them during WWI. The most numerous were Model 92 rifles in .44-40 calibre. The Royal Navy purchased 20,000 of these for use by boarding parties etc and obtained a further 1,000 from army sources. There were also at least 2,700 Model 94 rifles in .30-30 calibre as this number were listed as available for sale by the Disposal Department at the end of the war. It is presumed these were also a Royal Navy contract but it is not 100% certain. Finally the Royal Flying Corps had a small number of Model 86 rifles in .45-90 calibre and these were used with early tracer and incendiary ammunition against Zeppelins. Let me know if you would like further details of these in British service. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trey Whitley Posted 7 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2007 Tony: I was aware of the purchase of Model 1892 & 1894 carbines, though I didn't realize that many were shipped over or what their use was. I've also seen the same two models sent over during WWII, some of which were marked "Home Guard". The 1886's are new information to me. I'd love to get any detailed information you have on the purchase, use, and disposition of all of these (1886, 1892, and 1894). Even with the numbers you mention, the Russians made the most use of the combat levergun. Their purchase of some 293,000 Model 1895 muskets in 7.62x54R far exceeds the combined total of all others. In addition to the ones we've talked about so far, there were 10,000 Model 1895 muskets (in .30 US) purchased by the U.S. for trials and some Model 1894's acquired by the Canadians in WWII for use by the Pacific Coast Militia Rangers. Let me know if you need an email address to route the additional Winchester information. Thanks, Trey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 8 November , 2007 Share Posted 8 November , 2007 Trey Mail me at aoe(dot)303(at)Tesco(dot)net Regards Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kjohn73 Posted 14 December , 2010 Share Posted 14 December , 2010 Hello. I am a Canadian boy, and have one of these "Belgian Congo" 94's. Although the butt stock is from a rifle, I do have the original side mount swivel and butt plate. The rifle doesn't seem to have any Belgian proofs. It spent time in the 1920's and 30's around Herb Lake, Manitoba. Herb Lake was a mining town. The rifle has been well used, but is quite functional. It still actually has the saddle ring! If anybody has any questions about this particular carbine, feel free to post here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman Posted 29 December , 2010 Share Posted 29 December , 2010 I believe many Winchesters in both 44-40 and 30-30 caliber were used to arm State Guard forces. State Guard (Militia) were equivalent of WW II Brit Home Guards - made up of men too old or medically unfit for front line service , but still able to do perform static duties. Were recruited after state National Guard units were incorporated into US Army under terms of National Defense act of 1916 Used to guard locations like railroad yards, bridges (like crossing at Buffalo NY over Niagara River). canal locks at Sault Ste Marie and other vital installations German saboteurs were active through the US prior to entry to war - most notably blowing up the BLACK TOM loading pier in Jersey City NJ were munitions for the Allies were loaded for shipment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kjohn73 Posted 20 February , 2013 Share Posted 20 February , 2013 Well, this blind pig has found another acorn!! This old girl definitely made it to Belgium, although it doesn't have the word "meters" on the sight ladder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 October , 2017 Share Posted 20 October , 2017 Hello everyone i am new to this forum ... I am interested in the info on the Belgium Congo carbine ......... I am fro Ontario Canada and from what i have reviewed i have one of these Winchesters i have reached out to Jesi Bennett at the Cody museum they can only tell me where it was made ... no configuration of the gun or the customer ... the markings are as follows 1. rear ladder site in meters 2. PV 3. F with a star * over it 4. a flaming bomb 5. a factory side mount sling this Winchester is in real good shape for the age of it ..... can any one shed some light on it . SIR starts with 682XXX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robins2 Posted 21 October , 2017 Share Posted 21 October , 2017 you might find some info here http://proofhouse.com/ regards Bob R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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