An RE question for Mr Reeves

[Jonathan Saunders]

Terry,

I went to the IWM today, specifically to the Womens Exhibition - have you ever heard the story of a Sapper Lawrence serving with 179 Tunnelling Coy/ 51st Division (this is from memory as no pen and paper) during WW1? Apparently said Sapper Lawrence was a woman. Good for her!

I am presuming this is accurate. Do you have any other details?

Jon

[Tom Morgan]

Jon,

Not wishing to pre-empt Terry's reply, but here she (Dorothy Lawrence) is:

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Perhaps the inspiration for 'Bob' in Blackadder Goes Forth!

Was her true gender discovereded during the war or was it revealed after?

Was she awarded the campaign medals to which she was entitled considering technically she enlisted illegally?

Does her service record exist?

I might look her up next time I am at Kew.

Ian

[Jonathan Saunders]

Thanks Tom.

Ian - lets see what Terry comes back with otherwise if you have time to do some initial look ups at Kew I will follow up anything you find (or don't) at the RE Museum (its not quite just down the road, but very close).

[Terry_Reeves]

Sounds like I am being set up for something here. Never one to shirk a challenge though.

She wrote a book about her adventures in the early 1920's, "Sapper Dorothy Lawrence", some of it a bit fanciful if you ask me.

Synopsis. Dorothy and a friend , both wild young things, fancy seeing what life is like at the front. They manage to get themselves to Calais, but Dorothy's mate gets cold feet and heads off home. Miss Lawrence is made of sterner stuff and persists. She meets a group of French soldiers , who according to her, although nice, are only after one thing, and it's not her cross-channel ferry ticket stub.

Brits are best however, and she is eventually befriended by a Tommy who provides her with a uniform, and after some adventures lands up in the fighting zone, after bluffing her way past a military policeman. The boys from the CRE take her under their wing for several days, and manage to get her into a frontline trench, but not underground.

She is discovered in her billet after a few days by a rotten RE Sgt who thinks she may be a spy, speaks to her gruffly and arrests her. Dorothy is not impressed and complains bitterly about the way said Sgt speaks to her. "Obviously he did not go to a Public School" she cries.

After being incarcerated for a little time she is subject to an investigation, and booted out of France after her bona fides have been established.

She obviously did not expect her story to be believed as the preface to the book contains the sworn statement of one of the sapper's from the company, saying that the events did take place. He was in hospital at the time recovering from his injuries. I have his name somewhere.

The book has a couple of photo's of her, on the move in various disguises in France. All taken in a photographers studio needless to say.

Right, any more questions?

Terry Reeves

[armourersergeant]

Yes i have one.

Should Sigs be put on a charge..........Attending of IWM without correct kit .............

( no pen and paper)

Arm.

[Jonathan Saunders]

Thanks Arm ... you realise the etiquette of the Court will be to find me guilty as charged despite my water tight excuse of not having been issued proper kit. There has been no issue of a Soldiers Little Book or a Princess Mary's Xmas tin with a pencil?

Is there any chance of clemency or will I be shot in the morning (can you make it Tuesday as I haven't finished Mick's POW lists yet).

[armourersergeant]

Sigs,

Initiative would have been good a quick pop to the IWM shop for a pencil and a pad would have done good...Even 'Dougie' would have thought of that one

Arm.

Ps 6am sharp please, with blind fold.

[Terry_Reeves]

With regard to "Spr Dorothy Lawrence." The soldier who gave testimony to her time with 179 Tunnelling Coy RE was 189467 Sapper T Dunn RE. I did check Dunn's credentials over a decade or so ago, and he did exist. I must admit that I had forgotten about it until Jon's post. You will not find any record of Dorothy Lawrence for obvious reasons, but it is possible the that Dunn's service record may have survived.

Terry Reeves

[Jonathan Saunders]

Terry,

I was thinking earlier that whereas Hannah Snell is ighlighted at the Royal Marines Museum at Eastney, I dont recall any mention of Dorothy at the RE museum - which is a shame as it is an interesting story if nothing else. I have just found a few pages about her in Women War Heroines. I will read it later and report back.

[Guest]

I have been studying Dorothy Lawrence for a number of years now and although very little information exists about her, you may be interested in the following snippets of info:

In Walter Kirke's war diary - Head of the Secret Service (source - IMW) for approx 7th Sept 1915, it shows Dorothy's arrest but he doesn't name her other than referring to her as Miss Young (Which was underlined).

It says : Miss Young, arrested in Albert, dressed in British soldiers uniform, hair cut etc. An English amateur journalist - placed in a convent in St Omer until offensive has started - Because she might give things away in England.

Dorothy was 'morally institutionalised' in 1925 at St Bernards Mental Hospital then was transfered to Friern Barnet hospital in 1952 where she enventually passed away in 1964.

Her death certificate stated she was a spinster and a retired journalist.

She was allegedly born out of wedlock and adopted by a ' C of E Canon' who it appears was responsible for incarcerating her in 1925. Dorothy regularly states whilst she was in the mental institution that this 'guardian' repeatably raped her.

I am in the process of obtaining her passport for the war period which should open up some more lines of investigation as passports in those days carried alot of personal details about the individual.

I understand from emails with other interested parties that Tommy Dunn's medal card does exist. I couldn't find it at the PRO (Kew) the last time I was there, although I was in a rush. If anybody has a chance and they are in Kew I would greatly appreciate if somebody could look his service record up. His service number was RE 139467 not 189467 which was a misprint in her book.

Tommy was admitted to Royal Berkshire Hospital in Reading with a serious fractured right leg on June 26th 1918 and spent 92 days there until Sept 25th 1918. He was 48 years old at the time, so an oldish soldier. After that he left for Newcastle which appears to have been his home town. All lines of enquiry have stopped there.

When I have got all the information I need I will then produce a website about her an her exploits.

Regards

[Jonathan Saunders]

Thanks RS. You have made a welcome addition to her story.