21st Bn., KRRC and the attack on Flers 15/09/1916

[Nigel Marshall]

Hi,

I was wondering if any pals out there with an interest in this battalion would be able to recommend to me a book, or other source, to get an understanding of this action by Earl Feversham's battalion.

One of the men on my local war memorial belonged to the 21st Bn., KRRC and he died of wounds at Netley on 30th September 1916.

Ray Westlake's "British Battalions on the Somme" has this bn in action at Flers on 15th September 1916 and then not in action again until October. I have to assume that my man was wounded in this action, as the battalion was relieved from the line after the battle.

Any help or pointers would be very gratefully received.

Thanks,

Nigel

[BottsGreys]

Nigel:

I have a copy of Annals of the KRRC Vol. V, The Great War by Major-General Sir Steuart Hare. He is usually pretty good about providing details at battalion level regarding major actions, sometimes even giving war diary transcripts. I will check when I get home from work tonight and see.

Chris

[Nigel Marshall]

Chris,

That sounds great. The War Diary would have been my next port of call had my appeal fallen by the wayside. I have absolutely zero prior knowledge of this action - well except for the tanks, and the pumped up newspaper report about the army marching up Flers' main street - so anything at all would be great.

Thanks,

Nigel

[trenchtrotter]

Through medal collecting I have an interest in this battalion also. I look forward to any info that maybe forthcoming. My chap is Harry Thompson died 16/9 and is commemorated on Thiepval. I suspect he died on 15/9 as MIC states KIA but as casualty list was drawn up the next day it may account for the variation. I believe this often happened.

TT

[BottsGreys]

Nigel:

Regrettably, the War Diary is not quoted for the 21st Bn at Flers. However, below is what it does have to say. I hope it may be of some help.

Chris

Annals of the KRRC Vol. V, The Great War by Major-General Sir Steuart Hare. Pges 166-169.

15 September, 1916

"Next to the left of the 14th Division came the 41st. It attacked with the 124th Brigade on the right with two battalions in the front line--10th Queen's on the right, 21st KRRC on the left; the 122nd Brigade was on the

left, with the 15th Hampshire on the right, the 18th KRRC on the left. The dividing line between the two brigades passed through the middle of the village of Flers. The 18th Battalion made an unfortunate start,

which might well have affected the whole operation. Just as the attack was about to commence, the Commanding Officer (Lieut.-Colonel C. P. Marten, West Yorkshire Regiment), the Adjutant (Captain F. Walton), the Signalling Officer (Lieutenant W. S. Mathews), and the Trench Mortar Officer (Lieutenant D. S. D. Clark) were all killed by one shell. It speaks volumes for the training and discipline of the Battalion that, after this catastrophe, the attack was carried to a successful conclusion. At 6.20 a.m. the infantry advanced behind the barrage, and the first objective was taken at about 6.45. The Germans did not stand except for the machine-gun detachments, which, as usual, stuck it out manfully, and inflicted heavy casualties on the attackers, especially among the officers. Seven out of ten tanks had crossed the front line, and reached the objective two minutes ahead of the infantry. Consolidation was begun at once, and at 7.20 a.m. the attack

was continued behind the barrage, four tanks being still in action. The infantry got ahead of the tanks, but there was little opposition. The enemy's barrage, however, was very heavy. In one place the troops were stopped by uncut wire, but two tanks came up and made gaps in it. By 8 a.m. the second objective, a trench running through the extreme southern end of Flers, had been taken, and consolidation begun. At 8.10 a.m. 4 tanks entered Flers, followed by the infantry. The tanks did most effective work hunting out machine-gun nests. The village was cleared by 10 a.m., but there was much disorganization and mixing of units owing to the heavy casualties among the officers. The village was very heavily shelled, and at one time it looked as if the troops would be shelled out of it. At 10.20 a.m. a party of about 100 men and 2 machine guns, led by Captain R. Baskett, 18th KRRC, reached the third objective, and established themselves in two works, called Box and Cox, just north of the village, in touch with the New Zealanders on their left.

At this time the 124th Brigade had got out of touch to the east of the village, but in touch with the 14th Division. Lieut.-Colonel the Earl of Feversham, Commanding the 21st KRRC, and Lieut.-Colonel Oakley,

10th Queen's, with as many men as they could collect, advanced against the third objective, the same trench which, farther along, had been the limit of the advance of the 9th Rifle Brigade, captured it and held it for some time against more than one counter-attack. During this time Lord Faversham was killed. This party was in the end obliged to fall back east of the village. However, by the end of the day a line was established by the Division running round the north side of the village and connecting up with the 14th Division on the right and the New Zealanders on the left. This was the greatest advance made by any division in the course of the day.

The casualties of our two battalions were: 18th Battalion: officers--killed, in addition to those already named, Major P. G. Sadd, Captain J. B. Lester, Lieutenant C. N. Curwen, 2nd Lieutenant J. J. Langford; wounded 7; other ranks--killed 57, wounded 227, died of wounds 3, missing 59. Total of all ranks, 360.

21st Battalion: officers--killed, Lieutenant-Colonel the Earl of Feversham, 2nd Lieutenants T. P. A. Hervey, R. B. Nivison,; wounded 10; other ranks--killed 54, wounded 256, missing 70. Total of all ranks, 394.

The 21st Battalion was relieved at 3 a.m. the next day by the 11th Queen's; the 18th Battalion was not relieved till September 18."

[Nigel Marshall]

Chris,

That's great, and thanks so much for taking the time to transcribe it all.

Regards,

Nigel

[trenchtrotter]

Chris likewise, Thankyou.

TT

[stevehowarth]

Nigel

It may be worth taking a look at 'Flers & Gueudecourt' by Trevor Pidgeon. It's in the Battleground Europe series, published by Pen and Sword. I used it when researching a 21 KRRC man, Rifleman Harry Tindall, kia on 15th September 1916. It has a lot of maps and photographs of the area, and a chapter on the 41st Division, which the 21 KRRC belonged to.

Steve

[Nigel Marshall]

Steve,

Thanks for that, I'll use this weeks pocket money and a few minutes on a certain online bookshop!

Cheers,

Nigel

[Nigel Marshall]

Hi,

Would some kind soul please confirm that a man who died at Netley in September 1916 would have a death certificate registered in the district of South Stoneham?

Thanks very much.

Nigel

[sotonmate]

Nigel

Can't confirm the mechanics of such an action,merely that South Stoneham is a district of northern Southampton about 5 miles NW of Netley Hospital.

Best wishes

Sotonmate

[Nigel Marshall]

Hi Sotonmate,

Thanks or your reply. I took the plunge and ordered the certificate anyway. When it arrived it was the right one.

Thanks,

Nigel

[Simon_Fielding]

Very interested in this account of the shell that so damaged the 18/KRRC - might the ADC of the 41st Division been present to be hit by the same shell?

[Liz in Eastbourne]

Simon

I've looked at the KRRC Annals, from which Chris quoted at #5 in 2007, and Trevor Pidgeon's book on Flers and Guedecourt in the Battleground Europe series, and can see no suggestion that anyone other than the 18/KRRC officers was killed by this shell. Pidgeon says on p.78

'This [movement in the British lines] may well have alerted the Germans, who sent over a number of shells from time to time, as if searching for troop concentrations. One particularly unfortunate shot, landing just before Zero, killed the Commanding Officer of 18/KRRC (Lieutenant -Colonel C P Marten), his Adjutant, his Signalling Officer and his Trench Mortar Officer.'

This is in his chapter on 41st Division on 15 September, so he would surely have mentioned it if the ADC to the general commanding 41st Division had been hit as well.

Would it be likely that the ADC would be with 18/KRRC immediately before the attack on Flers? I don't know, I'm just asking! Who was he?

Liz

Edited 17 July , 2013 by Liz in Eastbourne

[Simon_Fielding]

Thanks for looking Liz - his details below. Brother of war poet Edward Thomas's battery commander Franklin Lushington. Guess there were shells to spare at the time! Will probably need the 41st Div HQ War Diary.

Cheers

Simon

LUSHINGTON, S E J C

Rank:

Lieutenant

Date of Death:

25/09/1916

Age:

21

Regiment/Service:

Hampshire Regiment

11th Bn. attd. 41st Div., A.D.C. H.Q. Staff.

Grave Reference

I. B. 51.

Cemetery

ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY

Additional Information:

Son of Sidney George Lushington, Barrister-at-Law.

[Liz in Eastbourne]

Interesting - so he died of wounds, which could well have been the result of one of those other shells, as you say.

I'd be interested to know what you find out!

Liz