Royal Welch or Royal Welsh

[Guest Fitz Ruben of Rednond Ridge]

I've recently seen Great War Cap Badges(1916 Economy variety) that are struck both ways. I tend to believe that Welch was correct because I do speak a little Welch taught to me by Mum and she always wrote it Welch. Which if any are fakes?

[Terry Denham]

The use of the revised term was introduced by the army soon after the war although there are debates about when the revised spelling actually came into force. It seems that it may have been used by some people before any official introduction.

CWGC has been instructed by the MoD to use 'Welch' in connection with casualties from 01.03.20 onwards but to use 'Welsh' prior to that date.

Therefore both versions can be correct presumably depending on the period from which the badge comes.

[Crunchy]

Hi There,

Welcome to the forum Fitz.

Our Welsh/Welch Pals may be a better source, however, up until around 1922 Welsh was the spelling for both the Royal Welsh Fusiliers and The Welsh Regiment. Around that date (1922) the spelling of Welsh in the title was changed to Welch; thus Royal Welch Fusiliers and The Welch Regiment from c1922 - on.

Your brass economy badges (1916 -1918) should be spelt Welsh for the genuine article, although both spellings are likely to be restrikes.

Regards

Crunchy

[Muerrisch]

a quote from my book 'Duty Done':

A visitor to the old Western Front, pausing to look at headstones or memorials to the missing, might be sufficiently observant to notice that two spellings, Welch and Welsh, coexist. The old English spelling was Welch, but coexisted with Welsh, so that for example in 1727 there is the ‘King’s Own Royal Regiment of Welch Fusiliers’. Again, in 1768 the spelling was most commonly Welch, but by 1815, the year of Waterloo, Welsh was the preferred version and retained this official status until 1920. Thus, during the Great War and for a short time afterwards, all official publications such as the Army List, Orders of Battle and ODIGW together with SDIGW unequivocally used Welsh [and not just for RWF, but also the Welsh Regiment]. Regimental badges and Colours also bore this spelling.

None of which explains why two versions should be found on headstones. Members of the Regiment clung to the old Welch for all internal purposes, for correspondence and indeed for the official War Diary, so that there is little doubt that soldiers fought and in many cases died as Royal Welch Fusiliers and might well have wished to be commemorated as such. And so commemorated they were, in the first instance, an arrangement formalised by Army Order 56 of 1920 which approved the change to Welch for the Regiment and also the Welch Regiment. Reasonably enough the CWGC adopted this spelling and so the great majority of headstones etc bear a badge with Welch and the soldier’s regiment engraved in full in the same style. However, since 1985 the CWGC policy [and it is quoted here exactly] ‘has been that as headstones need replacement, they are replaced by ones bearing Welsh.’ The policy was adopted after the so-called miss-spelling was brought to their attention.

[Terry Denham]

It is true that CWGC are replacing headstones as they fall due with those with the 'correct' spelling in accordance with the MoD ruling.

The original use of 'Welch' when the headstones were first erected was due to the military authorities at the time requesting such use. Many regiments had amended titles just after the war (the addition of 'Royal' etc) and they applied these to many activities after the war - including the instructions to CWGC re their badges, titles etc. It was their way of quickly establishing their revised identities.

The classic case is that of the RAF which insisted that all RFC men had to have the RAF badge even if they died pre-01.04.18. CWGC is now reversing that decision and new stones for RFC men bear the RFC badge. I don't recall the same being imposed on RNAS men however.

[Gibbo]

Robert Graves, a member of the regiment, is very clear in Goodbye to All That that within the Royal Welch Fusiliers, the word was spelt Welch during the war even though not officially recognised until later & that this was specific to that regiment as he uses the other spelling for the Welsh Regiment. On p. 13 he mentions both in the same sentence: 'I was glad when we got order to go "up the line", though disgusted to find ourselves posted not to the Royal Welch Fusiliers but to the Welsh Regiment.'

[Kevin O'Marah]

Being fluent in Welsh, I don't understand why Welsh was changed to Welch, as the 'ch when spoken in English through a Welsh tounge would sound like 'ch' at the end of 'belch', and when spoken in Welsh would sound simmilar to what 'spit the dog' would have sounded, prior to spitting.

I may be wrong but others are welcomed to differ.

Hwyl

Kevin

[Muerrisch]

My post 4 attempts an etymology of the uses, which, I suspect, had nothing to do with pronunciation, everything to do with spelling.

[Gibbo]

As pointed out by Grumpy, Welch was used in the 18th century. As explained by Kevin, Welsh is linguistically correct. My guess is that in the 18th century, Welch was chosen by English speakers unaware of or unconcerned by what was the linguistically correct version. Later, it was altered to Welsh but I assume that the Royal Welch Fusiliers preferred military tradition to linguistic accuracy & refused to change.

[Aurel Sercu]

The spelling WELSH / WELCH was also discussed in a Topic I started about this on 2 Oct 2005.

Maybe there will be some extra information.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...showtopic=38978

Aurel