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Remembered Today:

Tunnels for Pals of 1/7/16 at Serre


PhilB

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I`m sure a fellow on BBC News today said that tunnels were available which would have taken the Pals at Serre on 1/7/16 to within a few yards of the German Line without traversing nomansland. But they weren`t aware of them! Can this be true? Phil B

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This is the first I have heard of it but I am sure that more knowledgeable Pals have better information.

Martin

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I watched that report as well - open-mouthed. Its down to recent research apparently. Wasn't the expert opinion in the piece given by Peter Barton.

Sorry to be so vague - I was cooking at the time...

mike

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The report was illustrated by scenes from the Arras tunnels with massive head-room which would seem misleading. I would certainly be interested in knowing more though.

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It seemed unbelievable to me. Peter Barton showed a diagram of a tunnel and said that the tunnel would have been dug towards the enemy lines and then they could either dig down and place a charge or put some steps going up for the troops to emerge from. I nearly fell of the chair laughing. I could just see them in the dark tossing a coin trying to decide whether to go up or down.

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Watching the report made me feel wholly inadequate. How could I have missed that? Well this is a new and interesting thread. Someone out there must know the facts. Come on, Pals, share it with us!

Chris :huh:

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Watching the report made me feel wholly inadequate. How could I have missed that? Well this is a new and interesting thread. Someone out there must know the facts. Come on, Pals, share it with us!

Chris :huh:

I saw it too - precisely my thoughts. There were other claims in this reportthat the Tunnelers were all standing shouting at the soldiers that there were tunnels to use.

I would like to hear more about this if anyone knows.

doogal

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Thanks M13 and Andrew, need to go find the bde and bn OpOs.

Chris

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I was surprised by the saps reference too and wondered if there was confusing with the one's leading to the sunken lane.

Anyway the alleged Russian sap shown in the same report is the entrance to a dug out in Thiepval Wood not a Russian sap at all. It's mapped and anyway the archaeology is all wrong for a Russian sap - I know, I excavated it as it's part of the No Mans Land project. There are images of the same bit of trench in the Thiepval Wood thread in "Battlefields in Danger"

Cheers

Martin

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There may be some confusion over terms here. I understand a russian sap to be a trench which is covered over - not a tunnel. I can`t see that such a sap could be dug up near to the German line and the man in the BBC clip did refer to a tunnel and showed a diagram of a tunnel several yards below ground level and either rising up to a trapdoor of some kind or down to the site of an explosive mine. Phil B

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Guest Constable & Robinson Ltd

Dear All

I hope I can be of help, I want to be completely open and say that I work for the publishers Constable & Robinson Ltd. I have come to this site on several occasions since I did my degree in First World War History and Literature but have never posted before. I would however on this occasion like to add a little note to this thread as I think I maybe able to help.

Peter Barton is one of our authors and in 2005 published his book Battlefields of the First World War. In October 2006 we are publishing his book The Somme (the book could not be released in time of the anniversary) which goes into detail about the tunnels. It is certainly an aspect of the trench warfare I was not aware of ... however, I must admit my main period of study was 10 years ago.

I cannot give too much detail as I do not want to offend users - I hope you see this post in the spirit I intented, to help in an interesting subject, I worry that as it comes from the publishers you may think it has sinister motives - and we are in the process for selling the story for serial. Therefore, if anyone is interested in the story please do not hesitate to contact me.

Yours

Bruce Connal, bruce@constablerobinson.com

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Looking forward to looking at the book and his referencing. I've never heard of tunnels for use by infantry in the assault at Serre. But will go back to my books.

Mick

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Dear all

I have seen this Russian sap/tunnel business raised in the press in recent years in terms indicating that the generals were too stupid to send the men through the tunnels and sent them over the top to their deaths. This is patently nonsense as I am not sure quite how many battalions you can get through a 2 or 3 foot wide tunnel at any one time. I don't know about the ones at Serre but in the 4th and 29th Division sectors the tunnels had a purpose which was to facilitate communication and there was a one way system. Some were opened with the intention of placing trench mortars in no-mans-land to provide fire support to the assault. They proved to be death traps and the Germans quickly had all the entrances taped and in one instance destroyed the mortar crew with a grenade.

Geoffrey Malins describes trying to get his camera down the new tunnel from the British front line to the sunken lane to film there on the early morning of 1st July. He and his helper had to climb over men in the tunnel which gives some indication of how practical it would have been to feed large numbers through them. First Avenue Tunnel near the tip of Y Ravine has been excavated by the Durand Group and there is a DVD of the excavation which I have not yet got round to watching. Copies are probably available via their website.

Regards

Alastair Fraser

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